Sam Vander Wielen: [00:00:10] Hey, there, and welcome to On Your Terms. I’m your host, Sam Vander Wielen, a lawyer turned entrepreneur, who helps you legally protect your online business. And I am so excited today to share this guest episode with one of my coaches and an Instagram genius, Natasha, from Shine with Natasha. I think you’re just going to love this episode, because Natasha breaks down Instagram in such a refreshing way, at least from my perspective, because she talks about Instagram from a sustainability standpoint of like, what is a strategy that you can actually implement no matter what you’ve got going on in your life or in your business, or even like what your preferences and your values are in terms of showing up on social media.

And she also gave such great tips for people about like, what do you do if you’re just starting out? What do you do if you’re not seeing growth? What do you do when you feel really overwhelmed by all of the different features and what we call surfaces? You’ll hear us talk a lot about in this episode, surfaces, what we’re talking about when we say that are like on Instagram surfaces, our Stories, Lives, feed post, Reels, all of that kind of stuff. So, she really goes over all of it. She even talks about content batching, how to create like a sustainable content batching system, and your Instagram bio, and her three-part follower journey, which I just thought was, chef’s kiss, gold, and I think you’re going to love it. So, I am just so excited for you to listen to this episode.

Before we get into my introduction of Natasha, and then getting into this episode, I just have to thank the reviewer of the week, Abby Fitz, on Apple Podcast. Abby said, about the podcast, “Thank you, Sam. I love this podcast. Sam provides so much value with each episode and I love that she speaks on a variety of topics from tangible legal/business tips to mindset. Her talks are unique and refreshing, because she’s down to earth, and she makes it feel like I’m listening to a friend that knows exactly what I’m going through. I look forward to listening every time she puts out a new episode. Thanks, Sam.”

Well, thank you, Abby Fitz. I really appreciate you leaving that review of my podcast and I so appreciate you listening each week. If you want to be the reviewer of the week or if you want to enter to win a 20-dollar Starbucks gift card, because I pick a new winner every single month, you’re going to want to head over to Apple Podcasts and leave a review of my podcast, On Your Terms, it only takes a sec, and you could win a 20-dollar Starbucks gift card or a shoutout on a future episode.

With that, I am so excited to introduce to you Natasha of Shine with Natasha. Natasha is the host of the Shine Online podcast and an Instagram strategist that helps small businesses shine online. Through intensive strategy days, digital resources, and education, Natasha helps you build your brand on the gram with a video strategy that is fulfilling and fun without the overwhelm. I’m so excited for you to listen to this episode. Make sure you listen all the way through, because she’s also got an epic freebie for you at the end, a free video series for you.

And I would also love if you send me a DM on Instagram at Sam Vander Wielen, let me know what you thought about this episode, what was your number one takeaway. I know Natasha will love to hear from you as well if you found her through the podcast, but I’d really love to know if this was helpful for you. And even if you’re going to go off and implement a new Instagram strategy from it, I love hearing from you about that. So, with that, let’s get into my very fun Instagram convo with Natasha.

Hey, Natasha, and welcome to On Your Terms.

Natasha Samuel: [00:03:44] Thanks for having me, Sam. I’m excited.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:03:46] Oh, I’m so excited for you to be here. I’m just so excited for everybody to have the opportunity to listen to you and to be taught by you. For full disclosure, I am one of Natasha’s clients, and I learned so much from her, and she’s my go-to for learning all about Instagram, so I’m really excited to dive in with you today.

Natasha Samuel: [00:04:05] Yeah, and you’re killing on Instagram. I love seeing all your content, so yeah, I can’t wait to talk about all things Instagram.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:04:12] I know, right? Yeah. Well, hey, my taxes Reel from yesterday, I was doing good. I was like, I was laughing about that, I was like, of course, I don’t even do anything about that, but that goes well. Yeah, it’s fine. It’s all value. So, I was thinking it would be helpful for you to just share a little bit with everybody about who you are, how you got here, and how you work with people now.

Natasha Samuel: [00:04:33] Definitely. Yeah. So, my name’s Natasha of Shine with Natasha. I’m an Instagram strategist now, which takes route in a lot of different ways, education, programs, speaking, content creation. And I started my business while I was still in college, kind of feeling lost, confused, what’s next? And I was really inspired by one of my internships. She was a woman that worked in digital marketing, which I had never heard about, and she had her own remote business, and it was just her, and I never heard of that either.

And so, she kind of gave me the push and inspiration to start my own thing. And so, I started out with social media management. So, I worked with a lot of different types of clients, some had services, some were personal brands, some had physical products. And so, I really grew my skills in all things content creation, Instagram strategy, and also started to build my own brand as well.

And so, yeah, that kind of led to the pivot that I am now, of really helping with the strategy side of things and helping people, whether they have teams that are implementing for them or they’re still DIY-ing everything. And in video, showing up with confidence is definitely what I like to lean into, and something that’s sustainable, and fun, and enjoyable, because I know social media can feel like it’s draining from our businesses more than it is giving really great results. So, that’s kind of what I focus on with my clients and community.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:05:53] Yeah, I love that. And I think like I know my community is going to be so happy to go now and follow you on Instagram, and watch your stuff, and buy your stuff, because you just have such a beautiful approach to Instagram, in that it’s not this like rah, rah, super polished, like perfect thing, and you focus on value, and creating community, and creating evergreen content, which is something I’m really passionate about. So, I think it’s awesome and you’re a breath of fresh air, that’s for sure.

Natasha Samuel: [00:06:20] Thank you.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:06:21] Yes. So, I thought that it would be helpful for you to start out by just sharing with everyone, why is Instagram, in particular, a place for our listeners to show up, and help market and promote their businesses? Like what can they do on Instagram that they might not be able to get from some other platform?

Natasha Samuel: [00:06:41] Absolutely. And I think the thing that makes Instagram so overwhelming, which is actually one of my favorite parts, is that there are so many different surfaces to leverage on the platform, which I know we’ll get into a little bit later. But you can create in so many different ways, which really gives a dynamic experience with your brand. It’s not just short-form video. It’s not just long-form video. It’s not just tweets and words.

Like it’s really a dynamic experience, where you can leverage the surfaces in a lot of really unique ways. So, I would say that’s definitely one of my favorite parts. But when I think about all the social media platforms, I think YouTube and TikTok are getting like a lot of the spotlight right now, and I love both of those platforms for different reasons, but I think those platforms often have this consumption and discoverability part of them.

But with Instagram, I feel like with how DMs are set up, and the Lives, and the comment sections, that you really can engage and connect deeper with the brands that you connect with. And I find people all the time on TikTok, I’m like, wow, this is such a great product, or idea, or creator, but I always go over to Instagram to really connect with them deeper. And I think that’s what a lot of business owners are really trying to do, and Instagram’s just an amazing vessel to do that.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:08:01] Yeah. I could see that, because it’s like because of all those different services, which by the way, whenever we say surfaces, we mean like Lives, posts, Stories, feed, whatever, like all the different places you can appear on Instagram. But I think like that helps you to get a more holistic picture of someone, whether you would really then want to take the leap to work with them. I don’t know if that’s how you feel about Instagram, versus like a TikTok, for example.

Natasha Samuel: [00:08:26] Absolutely. And I think like sometimes, a TikTok, you can see something, you’re like, oh, I need this, and you’re maybe ready to buy or check something out, but I think that with Instagram, a lot of people need a lot of touchpoints with your brand to not only trust you, but to get to the point where they’re even considering purchasing something, because they might have a problem and not even know it until they see your valuable content, and your education, and all those dynamic things that you can do and create on Instagram. So, I really do think it’s definitely still the top tier in terms of social media, and it’s definitely a non-negotiable with all the options they have for different types of brands.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:09:04] Yeah, for sure. And what about somebody who’s a bit smaller on Instagram or like just getting started on Instagram has now chosen to like focus on it to grow it, is it still possible to grow on Instagram? Should that even be our goal? Is growth the goal? What’s the goal there?

Natasha Samuel: [00:09:21] Yeah, that’s such a great question. So, I think if you are newer, definitely, a really natural goal is that you want to build some type of community, keeping in mind, community can be small and still convert. One of my clients, I think she had maybe like 500 followers at one time, and she was making high ticket sales in her business at that time with a small, engaged audience of all the right people.

And I think even as someone who’s grown my platform a lot, and like if you’re an Instagram follower, I love you guys, but it becomes a lot when you have like a lot of people, which I know you know as well. So, more isn’t always better. So, really, yes, I think focusing on growing and getting in front of the right people is absolutely something you can still achieve. I think Reels have made that even more accessible, but collaborations is something else I really like for maybe doing Lives, takeovers, collaborative content on the feed.

So, I think there’s a lot of ways that you can grow organically on Instagram. But I also would challenge people, if you already maybe have a small following, that maybe your goal isn’t looking for new people, but it’s maybe focusing on the people you already have and nurturing them really, really well. I feel like we’re often like looking out on the horizons versus looking at what’s right in front of us, so I think that growing is a really great goal, but nurturing your current community is also a really great goal on Instagram. Those are kind of the two main places people can kind of focus their energy on.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:11:02] Yeah, for sure. And I talk about that on the podcast a lot from like the business perspective that as the business has grown, I’ve actually focused a lot on nurturing current clients. I have a whole podcast episode dedicated to why you should treat your clients like the Olive Garden does, like once they’re in, they’re family, because it pays back better dividends than like trying to constantly go back. And I don’t mean just selling your clients more stuff, by the way.

I also mean making them fans of your work so that they go tell other people, because that helps, too. But I’m thinking like as somebody listening to this and they’re thinking, okay, so now, Natasha’s told me like I have to nurture the audience that I have. Maybe I get growth from it, right? But in terms of connecting with them in a deeper way, what kind of content should they be creating then on Instagram, particularly for coaches and service providers who are bulk of my listeners?

Natasha Samuel: [00:11:53] Absolutely. I think we often hear niche all the time, and I don’t think you have to niche down to the most specific thing ever, but I do think you need to focus on a few categories of content that you want to be creating on. Content pillars is what they’re often called in the space. Essentially, I like to pick five pillars, or buckets, or categories that you really want to build all of your content around.

And this ensures that you’re not just talking about your offer, not just talking about what you do, but you’re really creating an experience with your brand. Because if all I talk about was Instagram on my Instagram page, I would be boring. I wouldn’t even want to consume my own content. And where that really starts for people that are listening is really think of that ideal follower. What do they do? How are they consuming content? What problems do they need help with? Where are they on their journey with what you are going to help them with? And what are maybe some mutual interests?

For example, I talk about Instagram, but business is a very natural part of that, because I speak to business owners. If I spoke to content creators, that would be a whole other pillar, but that’s not something I specifically do. Another connection point is morning rituals, mental health. I share my matcha. I share my office space. All of those are things that I have intentionally chosen to share, which also kind of gives you that permission that you don’t need to share everything, right?

It’s about choosing the very specific, intentional things that you want to share that essentially create your brand. So, if we kind of look at your five content pillars, there’s probably going to be two, maybe three that are the most obvious ones. They’re like your expertise. There’s that kind of niche word, I guess you could say, like where you really want to focus on in terms of your Instagram strategy.

And to my best ability, you really want to think about how you can get really specific, because for example, there are so many people that do Instagram, but I focus on video, and I focus on sustainable content creation, and really figure out, what are the things you want to lean into to really promote your own values, and methodologies, and processes really clearly in your content? And then, from there, you’re going to add in those maybe shoulder industry things.

Maybe it’s like a—for me, Instagram and business or Instagram and email. So, figuring out what that maybe related topic is, and then chances are, you probably have like a little personal bucket, that’s where you’ll add those little connection points. So, that’s kind of what I like to think about. There’s not just like one thing. It’s kind of like an array of things that creates a really fun experience for your brand and I feel like it also makes it where you don’t feel limited to only talk about one thing.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:14:33] Yeah, which is really freeing, and I know a lot of people want that. I call this the umbrella content method, where like your main pillar is like the handle, and then you have these little spokes that are like related, but they’re like branches off of what you do, and that’s very helpful, because I, as well as Natasha, would be bored out of my mind if I talked about legal stuff all day long, which is why I did a taxes thing yesterday.

So, I just like to talk about other things, but yeah, all, I guess, with that ideal customer in mind, of like, how else is this helpful and relevant to them? Yeah. One thing that I tend to hear a lot, especially like from my customers, is that they like to—I have kind of people in two camps. So, they like to, on the one hand, post a lot of the personal content, so more of the matcha morning ritual, that kind of stuff content. But then, when it comes to creating the like, here are three steps to whatever, people don’t want to do that quite as much.

On the flip side, I also have people in my community who will say, “I just don’t want to show up personally. I don’t want it to be about me. I want it to be about my work.” And they, sometimes, won’t even have a picture of themselves on their Instagram. I have pretty strong opinions, and I have talked about it with them, about like how well maybe you can do on a platform like that, but I’d be so curious what some of your thoughts and opinions are for people in both of those camps.

Natasha Samuel: [00:15:47] Definitely. And I think it’s about meeting in the middle for both of those, because on social media, more and more people are just wanting to connect with other people, and I think that’s where bigger brands either completely miss the mark or they do it just right, of understanding that their team, their community, their founders need to be on social media. I need to know who I’m investing in, who else is a part of that community, who else is using, or wearing, or featuring that product.

So, I think we need to think about it in the same way. Especially as coaches and service providers, what makes you, you is what makes you different from someone hiring the other person. And that’s like in a really good way, of like, if someone doesn’t like a casual vibe, maybe like really hate yellow, like all those different types of things might mean we might not vibe on a one on one or you might not like my programs.

So, while that might feel like you’re repelling a lot of people by leaning into those things that make you different, it’s actually what will attract all of the right people. So, yeah, I think like you have to have that personal connection point and you have to have those here and there. And there’s a lot of ways to do that where you don’t always feel like you’re having to share your family, your kids, your home.

There’s a lot of ways to make very, very clear boundaries on that, but we definitely want to make sure that we’re really being strategic with how we’re positioning ourselves as experts, whether it’s showing what you’re doing, it’s featuring your clients, and your case studies, and testimonials, or if it’s literally teaching. I think it can be a variety of ways.

I think people often think like teaching and showing up has to be really structured, but it could just be inspiring, or maybe like I know one of my clients loves to rant and give unpopular opinions, so that’s like her favorite way to coach and show her own coaching style. So, I think when we really tap into how we work with our clients and how we want our brand to feel, you can kind of see like, oh, it’s like a little bit of me, and then it’s like a little of my business, and that’s kind of how you like meet in the middle there.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:18:01] Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, and it feels like you’re giving them like a preview of what it’s going to be like to work with you. So, if they’re not going to like what they see there, they’re probably not going to like your product, so we don’t need people just hanging around on Instagram who don’t either like us or never intend to work with us, so I think that’s super helpful. So, I think it’s so helpful that you talked about the content pillars or buckets, whatever we all want to call it, and how to kind of divide that up, not make all five of them matcha morning routines, as much as we all want to.

It’s a lot more fun to, agreed, unless you’re like a lifestyle influencer, I suppose. But yeah, so if you were taking these content buckets, I think one thing that can be intimidating about Instagram and also kind of shiny squirrel syndrome-esque is like the fact that there are so many surfaces, right? So, if you’re sitting there with your five content pillars, then being like, wait, so should I do like Reel, Live, posts, blah, blah, blah, could you help them understand, how does somebody who’s now going to go at it with a strategy, to take those content pillars and apply it to some sort of schedule, and like picking which surfaces work for them?

Natasha Samuel: [00:19:10] Absolutely. So, I really like to recommend with your content pillars, most of them are probably going to go on a lot of different surfaces, but one, maybe your more personal one might only go on a platform like Stories. So, kind of think of it that way. They don’t all have to go on every surface. One might be only for one specifically, but how I like to think of it, I think what will be helpful is to break down how I see all the surfaces.

So, I really think of stories as like the heart and soul of your Instagram account. This is where you’re going to connect the deepest with your followers, and this is for the people that are wanting to get to know you and really see those behind the scenes types of elements. So, that’s where your more personal things are going to go, but I also think this is where those really strategic behind the scenes go, of you creating a new offer, you working in your business, you working in your programs, your offers, speaking, coaching.

All of that is really important to show, because it’s kind of like built-in social proof, right? Like I’m not just selling you on what I do, I’m like actually, actively doing it. And it’s also just built-in content, like you can easily take what you’re already doing right now, like if I really wanted to build podcast guest speaking, I could literally put my phone up right now and do a time lapse of us podcasting. And then, when we hop off, I could do a boomerang, like, hey, let’s do a boomerang, Sam.

Like those are really easy ways to show what you’re already doing, so I don’t think it has to be really complex. But Stories are expiring, so they don’t have to be perfectly curated, but we do want to post the most frequently to Stories. And I find that if you had to choose a non-negotiable, nail Stories first. That’s always the place that I like to start, because it leads to the DMs, and I just feel like it’s the best converting type of content as well.

Then, we have like the feed content, which isn’t expiring. It’s going to be on your grid. It’s going to be in the feed actively. And this is where all the other types of content go. And I think instead of thinking of it as like five different surfaces, if we think of it as like stories and feed, it kind of makes things feel a lot more intimidating, because if we think about it, Reels are posted to the feed, Instagram videos, which could be live replays are also posted to the feed, along with the rest of your feed content.

So, I kind of like to think of that number or all your other pillars, really, they should be like sprinkled across that entire little grid preview people get when they go and check out your brand. In terms of feed posts, I think they’re still very relevant. I like to think of them as places to get really great quality engagement, whether it’s comments or maybe it is saves, shares. All that type of stuff I think is really important to think about.

With your feed content, you can be educating. Maybe it’s like funny memes. Maybe it’s kind of quotes that are inspiring. But I think feed content is a really easy way to add that into your content. I most prefer to make a carousel out of feed content, because people are going to spend a little bit more time on it. So, that’s kind of how I like to think of your feed posts. And then, we have Lives, which I personally love, because they quite literally show what it’s like to work with you, how your mannerisms are.

It’s unedited, which I know can feel really intimidating, but it also means you don’t need to edit the video content, which is a bonus. And it kind of gives a little bit of a different feel and like more of a deeper connection with like collaborating with other people if you want to go Live with other people or just deeper connecting with the people that are actually on Live with you. And it’s a two in one, because then it becomes an Instagram Video.

Instagram Video, I know people neglect, that’s okay. It’s really mainly for any longer-form content or your Instagram lives, because of course, we have Reels. And this is where you’re either going to want to leverage that trending pieces of content that we know really well, music, lip syncs to really increase your reach and get in front of new people, which is really great for that growth goal, but I feel like there’s also been this really awesome shift away from just trending Reels, and doing more show and tell type of reels is how I like to describe them.

So, either visually showing something, whether it’s like a vlog, or it’s a demonstration, or tutorial, or by actually talking or telling to the camera. So, whether it’s a voiceover, talking to camera, which I feel like is really an accessible to use Reels. And essentially, it’s just leveraging short-form video that is going to just get the highest reach in terms of other types of video, and people can really consume it in a really bite-sized way. So, I feel like when we look at all the different surfaces, and then we take your content pillars, you can kind of see where some would go and maybe multiple, or maybe you would just lean into certain ones. So, hopefully, that breakdown was helpful.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:24:04] Yeah, I think that’s so helpful. I think your tip about treating the feed as kind of like the main category, and then all these others are like subcategories of it, because yeah, you’re right. Look, as long as we can post to the feed, like I always post every meal to the feed, everything, so that’s taking up all these feed slots that, in the past, that didn’t exist. We didn’t have Reels. Yeah, it’s just feed post.

I think that’s super helpful. And so, I thought it was helpful, too, you were saying that for feed posts, you like carousel posts. I always think of them, too, as like shareable, that kind of stuff, too, that gets people to engage, do you have any tips for people? I know this could be like its own podcast, but kind of like high-level tips for people about caption writing, and like what are we asking people to do? What are our calls to action when you’re starting out and trying to build?

Natasha Samuel: [00:24:51] Yes. So, I think the first most important part of your caption is like a really strong hook. That first line, you can think of it like a newsletter subject, a blog title. We wanted to essentially tell people why they should keep watching the video, scrolling through the carousel, reading the caption, or it should kind of give them a teaser to give them a reason to keep engaging with that content.

And then, we kind of get into formatting for your caption, which I feel like is a really important thing to consider. I think I love emojis. It seems like a silly thing, but I think it adds personality, it adds color, and it really adds context to a lot of the things that you’re saying in your caption. I like to use them as bullet points. I like to use them as like extra pronunciation in certain parts of my caption.

I like to use caps in my captions, as well as kind of like little headers and line breaks, tons of line breaks, because people could only read like two to three lines before it all kind of starts to blur together. So, that’s kind of some formatting tips for your captions. And then, when it comes to length, people always ask me, short versus long, it’s really what feels the most natural to your brand voice.

So, if you feel like writing a long caption feels like the hardest thing ever, then it probably isn’t very natural to your brand voice, and you might just want to keep it short and sweet. I think that works really well for a lot of different brands, but I definitely like to lean into a little bit of a longer caption, because I can kind of build on what other visual I’m essentially sharing in that post.

And then, I always like to add some type of call to action. And a call to action can be to go to a LinkedIn bio to buy, subscribe, opt in, or it can be something that’s very strategic, but it also can just be that little nudge people need to actually engage. Because I often find if people think they’re not getting enough engagement on their posts, it’s because either visually or with the actual context of the content, they’re not really giving enough for people to want to engage with, which might just mean you need to tap into your ideal follower a little bit more.

But for the most part, it might mean that you’re just not asking for the engagement that you essentially want. So, kind of understanding what feels like the easiest type of engagement, like we want to make it really easy. We don’t want them to think and type too hard, because then they just won’t do it. So, we really want to focus on what’s easy and accessible, but also what makes sense for that content, right? Like don’t just tell someone to save a piece of content if it’s not something that they would actually reference later, something that’s really robust that maybe they need to take action on.

But if it’s something where you’re leaning into unpopular opinions or something that might have follow-up questions, absolutely prompt and remind them to comment. Whenever I look at my content that has the highest engagement for those specific metrics, it’s because I focused on that specific metric, and I asked for the engagement, and I really consistently do that even when I didn’t get that type of engagement. So, that would definitely be my caption tips for everyone.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:27:56] Yeah, that’s really, really helpful. And I know you were talking a lot on Stories today about kind of matching the type of engagement with the type of content, and I think that makes a lot of sense. Because at least like when I was coming up in online business, it was always this like drop in emoji in the comments, like blah, blah, blah. It was kind of these like random pieces of engagement that was like, why are they dropping an emoji? For what? Like what are they getting from this?

So, I think that that was really making sense to me today. I was also thinking, so your episode is airing before we have an interview coming up with Katie Steckly about YouTube and podcasts, and I was thinking about how this would be helpful to pair with like, what about being on Instagram, and you have a podcast, like you and I do, or a Youtube channel, like you and I do, because we do all the things, and how do we show up on Instagram to let people know about that or should we even be using Instagram to drive people to those other platforms?

Natasha Samuel: [00:28:52] Yeah. I think it absolutely depends on your goal and kind of like where your main hub is. But I feel like for the most part, a lot of people like to stay where they are or they just want to know that the other platform that they connect with you on has a new piece of content. Sometimes, they just need the reminder. So, what I really like to focus on is giving each new piece of content really great promotion whenever it is live.

I like to post some stories about it, and then share the promotional graphics and links. I’ve really enjoyed playing around with Reels for either my interviews and also solo episodes for my YouTubes. So, it kind of feels like a native piece of Instagram content, and they’d get value out of it just by watching or reading it, but it also kind of be like, oh, well, this is really great, I wonder what it would be like on a different platform.

So, that’s personally what I found has worked really well for me. I think another really great method is really taking those longer pieces of content or even content you’re making on different platforms like TikTok and really using it as source content, so you can kind of make it feel like it makes sense on Instagram. Like I’m sure both of us could brainstorm so many ideas, even just with this interview, of taking the main elements we’re talking about and just breaking it down into a carousel, maybe turning it into a live stream, where I dive even deeper into a specific point.

So, I think we’re often creating a lot of content in great places, and that’s amazing, and so we want to focus on promoting it when they are live and giving the perks that they deserve, but also thinking of, how can I take this really great idea that someone just might not want to go to YouTube over? And that’s okay. And how can I make it a whole new piece of content that people can experience on Instagram and maybe even so out of call to action for YouTube or the podcast? So, that’s kind of how I like to think about it.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:30:46] Yeah, that’s really helpful. I was actually surprised yesterday. We nabbed a clip of a YouTube video that I did on like seven ways that you can legally reduce the amount of taxable income that you have, about like getting nabbed by the IRS, and we just took one of those tips and turned it into a Reel yesterday, and it’s actually doing really well, but we stripped all the stuff off of it that made it look like a YouTube video and everything, and did like Reel captions and everything else on it. We just took the native video that I had already created. Yeah.

Natasha Samuel: [00:31:17] Yes, absolutely. I think there are so many easy ways with the native tools within Instagram to make something feel like it’s supposed to be in Instagram without having to do a ton of extra work.

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And so, for anybody listening who is more in the auditing mood of being like, I’m already on Instagram, I’m already posting all these things, I’m trying Reels, I’m doing all the things, why isn’t it working? Why isn’t anybody engaging? What are some like, if somebody was to like back up and pause for a moment with Instagram, kind of come up with a new strategy, what are some of the things that you would encourage them to look for, look at in Instagram to do better moving forward?

Natasha Samuel: [00:33:36] Definitely. I think that profile experience is really something that not enough people really focus on and look at. And what I mean by profile experience is understanding how when someone goes to your main Instagram page, when they’re looking through all your content, what are they essentially going to do? How are they going to feel? Are they going to know enough about your brand? Because when a Reel takes off or when you get new eyeballs on your account, what are you actually doing with that reach and traffic?

And I feel like this kind of goes into this concept I like to talk about of your follower journey and really understanding how people are interacting with your brand throughout their whole journey on Instagram. The first being thinking about when someone follows you or they don’t even follow you, they’re thinking about following you, they’re thinking about pushing that button, what ensures that they don’t completely leave your Instagram for good and that they stay on for the ride?

So, one part is full stories. People love to binge stories. It like helps them get a vibe of what you’re going to be like. On top of that, having highlights built out. I personally don’t think you can have too many highlights, but I think they should be very specific. So, instead of just the tips highlight, have a specific highlight for a very specific tip, so people can easily tap through it and consume it. I get so many replies on my highlights, and it’s because I use that specific technique.

And then, also, just your bio. Clearly saying who you are, who you help, what people are going to get from following you, and what is that next step? Is it a freebie on your website? Is it content on an outside platform? Is it your services? Is it your availability? Is it your program that’s available? And then, like what your grid looks like. And I don’t say that in like it has to be perfectly curated way, but it has to have something that like pulls everything together and gives people a visual feel of your brand.

For me, it’s yellow. That’s kind of what holds everything together for me, but for some people, it’s graphics. For some people, it’s photos, it’s video, but like figuring out what that common thread is and like consistently doing it, but also making it easier for people to find other content from what they maybe discovered you on. So, that’s kind of like that first stage. And when you do all of that really well, and make sure that you’re attracting the right people, and that they actually are following you, and then we kind of go on to that nurture stage.

So, really think about your content and think about how it relates to your offers or whatever goal you have on Instagram. So, like are you building content around that? Maybe the objections they already are having. Maybe they need help identifying the problem. Maybe they need to be inspired or think about something in a completely different way, or maybe they really want to be entertained and feel a little bit more lighter about the topic.

I think knowing that person that you’re serving on Instagram, and nurturing them really, really well means you don’t even need to directly pitch to them for them to be ready to buy from you, which might take two weeks, it might take literally two years. You never know how long it might take for that person to convert, and maybe they never convert, but they send your Instagram profile to someone else, right?

And then, of course, we have like that last stage, which is where someone, maybe you’re launching, maybe you have like a funnel you want people to go into, or maybe you have an offer that’s evergreen, like a one-on-one session, and essentially people going like, okay, I’m warm, I’m ready, I know I want to work with this person, is it easy for them to actually purchase from you? Like is it linked in your LinkedIn bio? Do you have that call to action really clearly in your bio?

Do you even have, for the people that need an extra little bit of lurking, do you have a highlight that highlights your client testimonials or what’s included in your offer? I can’t tell you the amount of times where I’ve gone to want to buy from someone, and I’m like, do they even sell something? Like I don’t even know like where it is. So, we like can’t forget about that last step. So, I feel like those are hopefully, really easy changes people can make, whether they’re—maybe you already nailed the first stage, but really thinking of that whole journey, so you can kind of check all the boxes and really have your Instagram profile and content optimized.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:37:57] Yeah, that’s really helpful. That’s what you call your three-part follower journey, right?

Natasha Samuel: [00:38:01] Yes.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:38:01] Yeah, that’s super helpful. I think that’ll be helpful to people. I call the last one the how can I pay you money effect, because I like go to people’s profiles, sometimes, I feel the same way, I’m like, so how do I pay? Like what do you do that I can pay you for? I don’t even understand. And I think that there’s this whole like people get so used to that Instagram bios statement that’s like, I help, these very like fluffy, transformational things, but I’m like, but I don’t understand what you do, like how do I pay you?

Natasha Samuel: [00:38:26] And who you do it for. Like is it for me? Is it for someone else? Like really getting specific there, yeah, I think bios and like your actual profile name or places that people want to like stick out, and get really fluffy, and have fun with, which I think there can be fun elements, but I think we really need to focus on the important things, because you only have so little space.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:38:49] Yes. And please, for the love of all things, put your first name in it. Sometimes, people send me messages and I want to go thank them or I always use people’s names, and I go, and I’m like, how are we still having this conversation? I just am like, please put your name there, I don’t know. It’s not in there. It’s not in their handle. It’s not like that. But yeah, like that’s funny. You can easily tackle that one today after listening to this thing.

Natasha Samuel: [00:39:14] Yes. Woohoo.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:39:15] Yeah, exactly. So, I think that it would also be helpful for you to share a little bit, you do so great with batching content, which I think speaks so much to your like core value of sustainability, and like not doing what we’re talking about for a week, but like actually committing to this for a while and seeing how it goes. So, what are some tips that you would give to people about batching?

Natasha Samuel: [00:39:36] Definitely. So, I think the first thing is knowing how often you were going to post, because I think we often go to batch content and we actually don’t know how much content we need to batch. And this number is going to look different for everyone knowing you can always add to it, but it’s more important that you can like be consistent with like the bare minimum. So, it could be Stories, and then like a handful of posts each week. It doesn’t need to be daily.

It doesn’t need to be three times a day. If you don’t want to post on weekends, you don’t need to post on weekends. So, really figuring out what that looks like for you. And then, I think another thing is like having a place that you’re storing, and organizing your ideas and your content. This also will look different for everyone. I love Airtable. I also love ClickUp. You could do this in Google Docs or Google Sheets. You could do it in Trello, Asana, Notion.

There are so many really great options, and it really comes down to taking the time to really test out what tool works the best for what you need. But you need a place for when you have those ideas to store them, because when you sit down and create content, you won’t always feel creative, they won’t always be flowing, but there’s constantly inspiration all around us. So, we need to make sure that we’re actively storing it.

And then, a place that we’re organizing. I love to outline my content of like, what am I saying in my Lives? What am I saying in my Reels? So, just having a hub for at least those two things is really going to help you batch. And then, definitely just making the space and time to do it for yourself. Especially for fellow like content creators and social media managers, it’s so easy to do this for like your clients, and brands you’re partnering with, and all those things, and like forget to do it for yourself.

But whether it’s a day every month, a day every week, a few hours every week, like whatever you can maintain consistently, but kind of give yourself that business self-care of like, I’m sitting down and creating content, I’m feeling inspired, I’m not rushing it, I’m not trying to scramble and put something on Instagram randomly, really helps you, not only be more strategic, because you’re seeing all your content on the whole, but at least get a week ahead.

That’s probably like my final tip, is like knowing that batching doesn’t have to mean batching 60 days of content, because some people’s brains just don’t work like that. It could be a week of content, and that still would free you up so much time and energy. So, yeah, hopefully, those tips will help when people are wanting to batch and prep their content.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:42:04] That is really helpful, and I think it’s helpful to hear that it’s not so black and white, of like you have to batch like 800 months ahead of time. And I tend to be somebody who’s like, yeah, I get inspired, but to Natasha’s point, I also keep like a running list of ideas in Asana. And I actually break them out by categories, so I have like an ideas section for Youtube videos, or for Instagram, or for my email list of like emails I want to send. And that, she is right, makes it so much better when you sit down to batch all this stuff. So, definitely, you can implement that today, too. That’s for sure.

Natasha Samuel: [00:42:37] Yeah.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:42:38] Yeah. And so, I was thinking that as somebody was listening to this, they might think like, are we supposed to be kind of constantly reiterating on Instagram? Should we implement, like if somebody was to walk away from this episode even, you’ve given them so many good tips that someone could implement a strategy from what you shared today, should they like try that and stick to it for a certain period of time? And if not, like what should they be looking at over that period of time to adjust?

Natasha Samuel: [00:43:06] Definitely. So, it starts back to that goal you have, is it growing? Is it nurturing? And then, giving your strategy a little bit of time. At least two solid months, if not three, would be ideal to just like give it time, because sometimes, new things really takes time for you to get the data that you need, and also for Instagram and your own audience to kind of adapt to that change. So, definitely give it a good amount of time, and then just go inside Instagram, and look at your insights, and analyze.

Like put on your marketing hat, even if you’ve never put one on, and just start to ask questions. That’s how I like to analyze my content. I go to my insights. I look at my overall growth of like my actual audience. And I look at my engagement. I look at my reach. Those are the three main sections that I like to go in to really just look at all that data, and ask, why? Why was that going? Was it the time of day? Was it how often I was posting? Was it the type of content I was creating? Was it the change that I implemented? And kind of see how things are looking.

And then, I also like to go into individual pieces of content as well, and look at those insights, and see those exact metrics, and ask all those questions, because it could be that Instagram was rolling out a really big update and your engagement was low, because that is absolutely what happens. It happened to me last week, literally, Stories’ views were in the dumps, because they were rolling out Story lines, and that’s just how it rolls, my Story views are back to normal.

So, I think it’s like also understanding that Instagram social media, in general, will change, ebb and flow, but also just like really analyzing and asking questions on the visual, the way you wrote the caption, and also knowing by going back into all that content, you can repurpose, you can revise things, you can give it new life. It doesn’t mean you posted it, and now, it’s like wasted down the drain. Get in the habit of not only reviewing, but also retrying things, because it might work better the second time.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:45:03] Yeah, I really like the idea of just trying to be a scientist, and like asking questions, playing with it, having fun, not taking it so seriously. I also like often think about how I’m not like entitled to any sort of results based on effort, or like I’m not entitled to the platform showing my stuff, or I’m not entitled to growth. Like I’m there. It’s a free platform. I’m like, it’s incredible what we do get from it. I just try to be like pretty appreciative, and then adjust like, I’m just along for the ride.

Natasha Samuel: [00:45:31] Yes, we all are.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:45:32] Yeah. I’m like, I guess, oh, there’s something new. Okay. Yeah, it’s like every day. But I guess to that effect, too, like do you have any tips for people on burnout on Instagram, in particular?

Natasha Samuel: [00:45:44] Yeah. I think that taking a break is always healthy, and it could be for a long weekend. It could be for a decent amount of time. But I think that taking breaks, ideally, we’d love to pre-plan our breaks, and being like, hey, I’m going to be on vacation, or I’m going to be outside for lunch, I want to take a few days off of Instagram, right? Like pre-planned, intentional breaks is ideal, so we can like work towards that. But just take some time off. Absolutely.

Set some boundaries. I always like to say that Instagram should be within your office hours. So, when you log in and when you log off, try to keep your Instagram time between that and think about it like a task that you’re doing in your business. If you would be doing it at all hours of the day, taking away from other things that are important, that might mean you just need to step back a little bit, and also knowing you have a lot of control over your social media experience.

You can unfollow. You can mute. You can block. There are so many ways that you can curate your space, so you’re consuming content, even though we don’t want to consume too much. We’re consuming content, but only content that feels really good and helpful for our ultimate goals and the connections we want to make on the app. So, I feel like those things have been really helpful.

And like the most actionable thing is like if you have an iPhone, or I know they have the same settings on Android, is like, go in, look at your downtime settings, look at your do not disturb settings, your time limits. There are so many great things you can set up that will literally tell you to stop doing things on social media, which is always really helpful for me. So, yeah, that’s definitely what I like to do.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:47:18] Do you have a time limit app set for Instagram?

Natasha Samuel: [00:47:21] Yes, I have one set for Instagram for two hours and TikTok for 30 minutes.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:47:25] That’s a good idea, yeah.

Natasha Samuel: [00:47:27] Tiktok, we need to have it low, because if you go past an hour, it’s, yes, a rabbit hole.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:47:32] Yeah, that’s what I hear from people, they’re like, I just got pulled into TikTok for like hours. I’m like, oh, my God. It’s so funny, yeah.

Natasha Samuel: [00:47:38] Yeah.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:47:39] Yeah. Thank goodness for those controls, I suppose. Yeah. Well, so before we go today, too, you and I were talking before we hopped on, I think it would be really helpful for you just to share your insights or tips that you have on how we navigate social media as business owners in the midst of a crisis, a social justice movement, like the world feeling very heavy, and I know a lot of people are just not sure how to show up on social media, and I feel like no matter how somebody does show up, there tends to be like very strong opinions on both sides about how they’re doing it wrong, so I would just love to hear your thoughts on that.

Natasha Samuel: [00:48:14] Yeah. I think it kind of starts from a place of pausing, I think is the most important thing. And I think back to when I was a social media manager, that was the first thing I ever did. I didn’t react. I didn’t create a post, I didn’t freak out. I really just paused, which meant quite literally pausing my content, but also just like taking a step back to absorb what I needed to, but also to take a little bit of a mental break from it all, because you never make your best decisions when you were stressed, emotional, and not in a good state anyway, which we don’t want to be, we don’t want to be reactive.

And then, I think what’s so important is to like lean into what your brand values are, which very well might overlap with your personal values, and know that whatever you feel and want to share is worth sharing, and that it is okay if you might need to take feedback from people and learn, and that there isn’t a perfect way to talk about anything, right? Like there’s never going to be one perfect way in any situation, no matter what side of the cards you fall on.

So, I think accepting that taking a stand, speaking up on something, pivoting something in lieu of what’s happening in the world is always better than not speaking up, especially when it’s aligned with something that feels like it’s at your core values. But I really think that pausing and being just socially aware is so important. I think like with everything that’s going on right now with the war, Ukraine and Russia, I saw something the other day of a creator kind of saying something along the lines, I think we’ve all seen a lot of quite insensitive things, but I saw a creator along the lines of like, “I just like hope Russia just like backs off”, and I’m just like, that maybe wasn’t the right response to say for a lot of different reasons.

So, I think like just being thoughtful when responding, and then knowing that things, sometimes, have to go back to “normal” at one point. Like you can do whatever you can, say what you need to say, and then know that things have to keep moving, you have to keep launching, selling, running business, living life. So, yeah, that’s my like imperfect advice and take on it, because yeah, it’s a weird situation to navigate for all of us.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:50:41] Yeah, for sure. I think the pausing is so helpful, and I think it’s just helpful for you to share that there’s not a perfect way. And it also feels like such a fine line and a balance of like you saying something, and being socially aware, and standing with your values, both personal and business, and also not shifting into like a political correspondent every time something is going on. Like I’m not looking to the people who I follow on Instagram, who are like business coaches or like, I don’t know, marketing experts, Youtube experts, I’m not looking to them, be like, so what’s going on in Ukraine?

Like I will go to my news sources for this, but like to know that those people acknowledge it, to your point, and that they’re not being so insensitive, as to like I’ve seen some things that I’ve felt a little like, there was just a lack of acknowledgement, which made me feel like you’re a bit out of touch, right? And that just then wouldn’t align with me wanting to work with that person. Doesn’t make them like a bad person, I just don’t want to—yeah, it’s just not who I’d want to pay money, I suppose. Yeah.

Natasha Samuel: [00:51:36] Absolutely. Yeah.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:51:36] But I know like a lot of friends have shared that they feel this pressure to then like speak about it constantly, to be like giving running updates, or just sharing like tons of graphics. You see at this time, like everybody just turns to re-sharing posts on Stories.

Natasha Samuel: [00:51:50] Yeah. I think it just comes down to saying what you feel like you need to say about the situation, and then knowing that eventually, you have to move on, and that, yeah, if you get negative feedback for whatever reason, that’s okay, they’re probably not a good fit for your community anyway. And I know it’s hard to take and absorb, but it goes back to that, there’s never a right way. I mean, even like this is like not as hard hitting issue, but I do a clothing rental, because I’m a content creator, I do a lot of speaking, and I’m still figuring out my personal style.

So, it feels like one of the more sustainable options in terms of clothing, my personal choice. And even with that choice, I get people telling me that it’s a horrible company, and that I shouldn’t do that, and that it’s actually not better for the environment. So, even with things that aren’t as important as a war, people aren’t always going to agree with you, and that is okay, knowing that deep down inside, if you feel like this is my values, this one feels good, I’m going to say it and be at peace with that, then that’s all you had to do, and you’re good, you can move on.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:52:56] Yeah, exactly. Call it a day. Yes, exactly. This is like when I would post about my dad having cancer, and people would be like, “He shouldn’t be eating that”, and he really shouldn’t be having sugar, and I’d be like, “Well, he has terminal cancer, so we’re going to eat this banana cream pie and we’re going to call it a day, but thanks for your opinion”.

Natasha Samuel: [00:53:11] Yes, exactly.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:53:13] Now, I actually put a little disclaimer that says, I’m not looking for feedback on my father’s nutritional habits.

Natasha Samuel: [00:53:20] Yeah. And I think that also speaks to being a thoughtful consumer, right? Like even before I had a “following”, like I remember, you’d see something, and maybe you’d ask for a link or you’d want to give a suggestion, and you have to realize like, would you randomly like poke someone in the grocery store line, and say, actually, you shouldn’t be eating that, and people do that, which is a whole other thing.

But when we shift how we think about it on Instagram, we realize that I even could be a better consumer in a lot of ways of how I reach out to people or how I message people, because sometimes, people feel like you know someone or feel like you’re able to speak on something even from a great place, and that maybe we kind of just need to write the message and just delete it, and then just keep on tapping, keep on scrolling through. So, that even also speaks to that as well, because I think sometimes, we don’t even notice it, that we maybe could engage better as well.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:54:12] Yeah, for sure. It’s really helpful. Alright. Well, before we close out today, I have a couple of fun Q&As if you’re up for it.

Natasha Samuel: [00:54:21] Cool.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:54:21] So, would you rather read fiction or nonfiction?

Natasha Samuel: [00:54:28] Fiction.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:54:30] Have you read anything lately that you’ve loved?

Natasha Samuel: [00:54:33] Not anything that I’ve loved with worth noting, I’m discovering some new leads.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:54:37] Shopping for it. Alright.

Natasha Samuel: [00:54:39] Yeah.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:54:40] I highly recommend Black Cake. I’m reading it right now and it is so good.

Natasha Samuel: [00:54:44] Oh.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:54:44] Yeah, it’s really good. I highly recommend. Well, I think I know the answer to this one. But would you rather live at the beach, the mountains, or the desert?

Natasha Samuel: [00:54:55] I’m going to say the mountains.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:54:57] I thought you were going to say beach, for sure.

Natasha Samuel: [00:54:59] I know.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:54:59] Yeah.

Natasha Samuel: [00:54:59] No, I can’t imagine not living near the water, but there’s something about the mountains, so that’s more of a desire. You want what you don’t have, I guess you could say.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:55:10] Yeah, you grew up around it, so you’re used to it, so you could try something different now. Has there been any place that you’ve been to that was like really mountainous that you loved?

Natasha Samuel: [00:55:18] Oh, Washington State. Loved it. Oh, my gosh.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:55:21] That’s cool.

Natasha Samuel: [00:55:22] Want to move every day, but it’s kind of on the whole other side of country,

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:55:25] Yeah, that whole thing. Yeah. I hear it’s like crazy expensive, too, but that’s why—and like very hard to find housing, but that’s like everywhere now.

Natasha Samuel: [00:55:33] Yes.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:55:33] Yeah. Well, I have to add an option to this one, but would you rather order coffee, tea, or in your case, matcha?

Natasha Samuel: [00:55:41] Matcha. I would say matcha. When I am drinking out, though, I often will get a latte. I do love a good latte.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:55:46] You drink coffee? That’s breaking news.

Natasha Samuel: [00:55:48] I drink coffee, but I love an at-home matcha. So, at home, matcha, out and about, a latte.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:55:55] What’s your latte order, just like a plain latte? Do you put anything fun?

Natasha Samuel: [00:55:58] Old milk latte, yeah, just basic.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:56:00] Yeah, that’s good. Yeah, that sounds good. This one’s very controversial to everyone who’s been on the podcast. When you cook, do you clean up as you go or clean up at the end?

Natasha Samuel: [00:56:11] We should ask Marlin what I do. I try to clean up as I go. That is the intention, yes.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:56:22] Whether or not that’s always the end result is yet to be determined.

Natasha Samuel: [00:56:26] Yes.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:56:26] Alright. Tell Marlin he can submit his formal response to us, we’ll include it. And last but not least, would you rather hit up a fancy restaurant or the best food truck?

Natasha Samuel: [00:56:37] Best food truck, easily. Oh, yeah.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:56:39] So good. I know. Are there good ones in Florida that you like?

Natasha Samuel: [00:56:43] Yes. We actually just went to a whole taco festival, full of food trucks, food and taco.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:56:47] That sounds amazing.

Natasha Samuel: [00:56:48] It was amazing. It was my dream.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:56:50] Yeah, that sounds like an amazing food truck heaven. Yeah, that’s awesome. Alright. Well, before you go, I would love for you to share with everyone where they can find you. And also, you were telling me earlier that you have a little something fun to share with them.

Natasha Samuel: [00:57:02] Yeah. So, you definitely can find me over on Instagram at Shine with Natasha. I also have a podcast, the Shine Online podcast. And then, I have a free resource that’s a video lesson all about how to repurpose content, which I know we briefly touched on today, but it’ll be really helpful on breaking down what are the steps you need to do to take past content and turn it into fresh new content really intentionally. So, you can check that out on the show notes.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:57:27] Perfect. Yeah. We’ll include all of the links, and I think that will be perfect to helping everybody implement the strategy of not burning out, being sustainable today as repurposing content. So, definitely check that out. I’ll make sure we have all the links. Thank you so much, Natasha, for doing this. This was so fun.

Natasha Samuel: [00:57:42] Yeah, thanks for having me.

Sam Vander Wielen: [00:57:47] Thanks so much for listening to the On Your Terms podcast. Make sure to follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen to podcasts. You can also check out all of our podcast episodes, show notes, links, and more at samvanderwielen.com/podcast. You can learn more about legally protecting your business and take my free legal workshop, Five Steps to Legally Protect and Grow Your Online Business, at samvanderwielen.com. And to stay connected and follow along, follow me on Instagram at Sam Vander Wielen, and send me a DM to say hi.