I Went to Craft + Commerce. Here’s Everything I Learned.

  Sam Vander Wielen: Hey there, and welcome back to On Your Terms®. On Your Terms® is a podcast for online business owners who want to be as present in their lives as profitable in their businesses. And man, I have missed podcasting. I feel like I have not podcasted, recorded, I don’t know, whatever we call it, in a while, other than being on other people’s podcasts, because we batch, like, pretty far ahead of time, but then I knew I also had a lot of travel and there’s just, like, a lot going on.

So I have really missed this and missed being here with you guys, so I’m so happy to be back today. And not just to be here, but to be talking about one of my favorite topics, Kit’s, Craft + Commerce Conference.

If you missed it, my goal is really to bring you along to the conference here, literally because I’ve got, like, in real time clips that I recorded for you while I was there. But I’m just so excited to talk to you about one of my favorite events of the entire year as if we were just hanging out in the hallway together.

So in case you don’t know, every single year Kit, the software company, email marketing company that I have used now for over 10 years to not only build my email list, but also run all of my funnels and kind of all the backend visual automations and sequences and landing pages and forms and all that stuff, they put on this killer conference every June in Boise, Idaho.

And no, it is not about Kit or, uh, like about their software necessarily, although they do have classes on it, but a lot of people go to it who don’t even use Kit. Um, you should be using Kit ’cause it’s awesome, but if you’re not, you can still go.

Now, although this episode is definitely not sponsored by Kit, I am a Kit affiliate. Like I said, I have been with Kit for over 10 years. I absolutely love Kit. If you read my emails, you always see me talking about them and their features and just how much I genuinely like it and use it myself.

Um, so I would probably be remiss to tell you that they’ve given me a special deal recently because I push a lot of people their way, as you can imagine, from talking about it so much. And so they are offering my listeners here their first month free. Like I said, it’s not sponsored, but this is an affiliate link that I will drop down in the show notes down below.

If you’ve been wanting to try out Kit to build your email list, build landing pages and forms, or even start to build out a funnel like me, then you’re definitely going to want to sign up and start tinkering around with it. So click the link in my show notes for your first month free.

All right, so first up, let’s talk about why I go to Craft + Commerce every year. So there’s just no match for going to in-person events. You can attend all the summits and all, like, the Zoom calls in the world, and it’s just not the same. And even when it comes to in-person events, I’ve been to a lot of different conferences and meetups and things, they’re not all created equal.

I don’t know what it is about Craft + Commerce. The people who go always say that there’s just, like, a little bit of something like a magic to this conference. And people always ask me, like, when I tell them I’m going to a conference in Boise, they’re always like, “Boise? Why don’t they put it somewhere else?”

First of all, Boise is cool. Bo- Boise is a cute city and, and doesn’t deserve the shade, uh, like, first and foremost. But the second thing is that I actually think them having it in Boise is part of the magic that lends itself to this conference, because it basically feels like all of these creators and coaches and people in the online world take over this little town for the week that they have this conference.

And I think it would just kind of get lost if they had it in New York City and people just, like, blended in to millions of people and were at all these different hotels. So I think it’s actually a really cool part of it.

So many of the people that I’ve met, um, I think this is my fifth Craft + Commerce. So many of the people I’ve met, I’ve literally met on the street, like, walking from the venue to the hotel or to dinner, or I’ve run into them in the coffee shop in the morning. So it’s just, like, that kind of conference, and I think Boise is actually such an important part of what makes it so great.

It also, for whatever reason, attracts the best people. I was joking with my friend that I was like, maybe it’s that really good people are willing to go to Boise, ’cause it, like, pretty much always requires two flights. It’s a long day. It’s a whole thing, and they’re, like, open-minded enough to go.

But there’s something about it that this conference, I’m telling you, attracts the best people, the most down-to-earth, just, like, very cool, approachable, whether the person has a million subscribers or followers or whatever, or they are brand new, I feel genuinely, genuinely feel like everybody gets treated the same, and people are open to one another and open to meeting each other.

I asked my friend Mallory Rowan, who just happens to be one of my favorite people, what brought her to Craft and Commerce and what she finds about meeting people and spending time with people in real life. So let’s hear a little clip from my On The Street interview with Mal.

Sam Vander Wielen: Hey, Mal.

Mallory Rowan: Hey.

Sam Vander Wielen: What’s going on?

Mallory Rowan: Just enjoying the sunshine.

Sam Vander Wielen: I know. It’s a, it’s like a nice reprieve for me from New York ’cause it’s hot. Well, okay, so you had come to Craft + Commerce a, a while ago, a long time ago.

Sam Vander Wielen: Mm-hmm. And now you’re back. She’s back, baby.

Mallory Rowan: I’m back.

Sam Vander Wielen: She’s back. Um, back and better than ever. And what, what brought you back to Craft + Commerce?

Mallory Rowan: Honestly, the people.Like, that was a big one. It’s so funny because 2019 I came as, like, a friend’s extra pass. Ah. And I knew literally no one. Mm-hmm. Um, and I hadn’t gone to a lot of things in this space. I was kind of transitioning from my first business to this business, and so it was so interesting to, like, have that experience and then come back and be like, “Wow, I know so many people from, like, so many different worlds. Like, it feels like all my worlds are colliding here.” Yeah. Um, so that’s really fun, and I feel like events like these are cool where you can have all these people that live in different places- Mm be able to, like, hug them all in one spot.

Sam Vander Wielen: What do you think is important for people to know about coming to in-person events? Especially if somebody is listening to this and is like, “Yeah, but guys, but I don’t know people, so I would be the one going there.” Mm. Like, I, I’m not walking into a room full of friends. Why should they come to something like this?

Mallory Rowan: I mean, it’s a great way to start making some of those friends. Um, you know, you get in the rooms with people that you wanna be around. Yeah. And then I think there’s a whole different level of intentionality. Some people come in with a list of people they know are going and wanna make a point of meeting. I am more, like, the vibes when somebody’s in a room. Mm. If there’s a group of people talking and I love someone’s style- Yeah … or they’re saying something funny, I’m like, “That’s my people.”

And then I think if you just encourage yourself to click- Like, let yourself go and click with those people. Yeah. I also love going to events alone. It’s still intimidating. Mm. But I go to a lot of creator events in Toronto purposely alone. Mm. Because if I bring a buddy, I’m just going to be with my buddy all night, because I am a little uncomfortable.

Um, but if I go by myself, other people are more likely to include you, because they notice other people who are solo. It’s so easy to have an interaction. And so I find, as intimidating as it can be- Yeah … you end up meeting so many more people by being alone, and just, like, a little bit brave. Yeah. And I think it’s, these kind of events escalate it from people who kind of follow each other to real friends. Yeah. I have, um, Gabby that’s speaking. Yeah. Like, we’ve been internet friends for a while, but just meeting and chatting, we realized we’re going through similar pivots in our business.

Mm. And you know, I’m like, “Hey, I’d be happy to FaceTime about this, like later this summer.” And so then now we’re, you know, kind of taking things to the next level, if you will. How does it feel to go to the next level? Pretty intimate. Yeah. No, it’s nice. Pretty intimate. Pretty intimate. Yeah. Pretty intimate.

I got her WhatsApp, you know. Oh, wow. That’s next level. That’s next level. Yeah.

Sam Vander Wielen: Oh, well that’s amazing. Well, thanks for doing this, Mal. I appreciate it.

Mallory Rowan: You’re so welcome.

Sam Vander Wielen: Where should everybody find you?

Mallory Rowan: I’m pretty much Mallory Rowan everywhere, @malloryrowan on Instagram is my main, malloryrowan.com. Or you can also look up Fund Club- Oh, yeah which is my new investing community for people who wanna be work optional.

Sam Vander Wielen: I’ll drop all the links in the description. Thank you.

So when it comes to Craft + Commerce, yes, the programming is great. Like, the speeches are great, the keynotes are great, the workshops. So they kind of break it into two things. There’s, like, main stage talks, and then there are workshops, and they’re all fantastic. You might remember that last year in 2025, right after my book came out, um, “When I Start My Business, I’ll Be Happy,” I got to give a keynote and teach a workshop at Craft and Commerce, so they have both.

And those are fantastic, but I have to tell you, honestly, my favorite thing about Craft + Commerce is really what happens between sessions. Like, at the karaoke that’s, like, after dinner or at the happy hours that are hosted by the members. They have these, like, member-led meetups or attendee-led meetups, right? Where people in their app, in their custom app, you can go on and say, “Hey, everybody, I’m meeting at such and such restaurant at 7:00 PM. Anybody who wants to come,” and people go. It’s something that’s so unique about this conference, and I personally have gotten the most out of those, like, kind of meetups and casual interactions.

I stopped Nathan Barry, the founder of Kit, on the street, and I asked him, with everything he has going on in his life, what keeps him putting on Craft & Commerce and why does he think it’s so great?

 Sam Vander Wielen: All right, Nathan, so you have so much going on in your life. You’re flying a plane. Yes. You’re running Kit. You’re coming out with a book in December. Why do you keep hosting a live, in-person community event called Craft + Commerce?

Nathan Barry: Well, really it’s just so all my friends will come visit me.No, but it’s so special to see, like, 450 creators in the room- Yeah … who may have come for their third, fourth, sixth, even eighth Craft and Commerce, which is pretty crazy, and we’ve made the event that everybody has to come to.. And it’s really special. I think also, like, maybe this is more of an official answer or something like that, but we mean it, is, like, there’s so much technology and changes. Everyone, everyone talks about, like, “Oh, in the future of AI are we gonna lose the human connection?” And they, like, pontificate about that on the internet, and it’s like, I mean, well, if you think that’s gonna happen, do something about it. Mm. Like, go get hundreds of people together. That’s why we do the conferences, that’s why we do the studios is, like, let’s actually have real connection, um, in person.

Sam Vander Wielen:  Yeah, so you you and I got to hang last week in New York City, in the studios. Little soft launch, friends and family event. Yes. It was so fun. I’m so excited for everybody to get to use Kit Studios in New York… and now obviously here in Boise and in Chicago.

Nathan Barry:  You might be one of the few people who’s been to all three.

Sam Vander Wielen:  I’ve been to all three. Gotta collect them all. Where do I get a badge? Oh, we should- Can we get Pat, Pat to make us some sort of Pokemon card? Yes, exactly. I want something for this. You can collect them all that. Yeah. Um, what are you hoping, uh, you get out of the studios for all of your customers?

Nathan Barry:  I think the big thing is for them all to create content together and connect. Yeah. Like, the big thing is the creator journey can often be really lonely. Yeah. You know, we sit behind the, our keyboards in our home offices. Yeah. You know, all around, and you get connection occasionally, you know, when you go to events and that kind of thing.

But even they, those can be lonely if you don’t know anybody. Yeah. Right? You have to put yourself out there. And so I think the studios are, like, a, a lower stakes way. Mm. So I have this dream of, like- Maybe, you know, think of you and I as, like, beginner creators and we’re, you know, we meet at an event and we’re like, “Oh, we’re both, you know, in the New York area. Like, let’s meet up and record some content there.” And then when we go in, of course you’re gonna- there’s gonna be, like, eight or 20 other creators, like, doing their various thing there. Yeah. So you’re meeting more people. And it, like, it can just start really small and personal and snowball from there.

And then just for creators to be able to put really high quality content out there without having to do all of the work. Mm. Right? They can focus on the storytelling and the ideas and their unique voice rather than, like, obsessing over, “Hey, what F-stop should a camera be at, bro?” Yeah. You know? I don’t know. Like, all of that stuff. You know, just, like, sit down and make it beautiful, not, you know, worry about the other details.

Sam Vander Wielen:  Yeah. It’s exactly what it is, so plug and play. Like, that’s why I went in, in December and recorded the bundle, and it was just so helpful to not worry about audio, lighting, like, everything. Yeah. That’s cool. Well, I appreciate you doing this. What do you hope that Craft + Commerce looks like 10 years from now?

Nathan Barry:  Okay, that’s a really hard question. Because the common answer would be, like, bigger, better- Mm … more, whatever. And I think it’s gonna lose something if we do that. Mm-hmm. Um, a lot of people have said we need to move to a different city. Mm-hmm.

We need to move to a bigger venue. You know, this venue caps out at 450 people. Like, it was packed this morning. Yeah. And so obviously there’s more and more people that wanna come. It sell- like, last year it sold out maybe a month in advance. Mm-hmm. This year it sold out, like, two and a half months in advance, and so it’s just gonna keep happening. I think my dream for it is that it takes on more of a South by Southwest feel.

Sam Vander Wielen: Oh, that’s cool.

Nathan Barry: Where, like, for an entire week we take over all of Boise. And so let’s say half the people or two-thirds are like, “Oh, I have a ticket to the main stage.” But other people are like, “No, I’m just here to hang out, record content.” Or, you know, there’s a bunch of masterminds that people- Mm-hmm … host in and around, uh, the conference. The meetups get much bigger. And so I think that’s the way that we can still capture the, the intimate feel- Mm … um, but still include a lot more people.

Sam Vander Wielen: That’s amazing. Well, thank you for doing this. Thanks for having me, and thank you for putting on this great event every year.

Nathan Barry: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.

Sam Vander Wielen: So like you just heard from Nathan, there are a really wide range of people who come to Craft + Commerce. It’s a really, like, a wide type of, I don’t know, I would say, like, experience level of businesses. I think that people in the past who I’ve spoken to have thought that all the people who go are, like, really big names or big, have big businesses or something like that, and I think it’s because they… those are probably the people who they see promoting it on social media.

But as someone who goes there all the time, I have to tell you, there’s a really wide range. There’s also a wide range of industry types. Like, there are people there who own SaaS companies, you know, companies like Kit. I met the guy who owns Senja, um, who we use for our testimonials, for example.

The entire Kit team is there, who many of them, by the way, are creators themselves and have really cool, like, side hustles or creator businesses going on. And for me personally, and like selfishly, I just, I work with the Kit team so much on so many different things that I really love getting to meet them in person and, and like putting a face to the name. But then there are also so many people who are authors and podcasters and coaches and creators and artists.

I met people who were just business curious this year, like, who were like, “I’m thinking about le- leaving my job, but, like, I wanna start a business, but I don’t even know what’s possible or what’s out there.” And I was… I thought that was so cool that they just, like, showed up to this conference and were totally, like, fishes out of water, but taking it all in. So there really is a wide range. So if you’ve ever considered going but thought you, like, didn’t fit for some reason, I, I hope this puts you at ease.

Now, one of the reasons some of us go, and I remember last year I was there to promote my book, um, my friend Steve Kamb was there this year because his book, How to Try Again, just came out. Everybody should go buy it if you haven’t already. I’ll make sure I put a link in the show notes, but it’s, it’s fantastic.

Um, but Steve was there actually promoting, uh, his book and networking with people, and wearing a shirt that said, ‘I wrote this book,’ with a picture and an arrow to his book, which was hilarious. But let’s talk to Steve real quick on the street about the release of his book.

Sam Vander Wielen: Hey, Steve.

Steve Kamb: Hi, Sam. How are you?

Sam Vander Wielen: I’m good. How are you?

Steve Kamb: Great. Happy anniversary.

Sam Vander Wielen: Happy anniversary. We bec- it’s our friendiversary. We became friends last year. Yeah, exactly one year ago. Yeah, I find it really hard to believe.

Steve Kamb: I know. Gosh. Yeah. It’s amazing.I’m wearing this obnoxious T-shirt- I love it … because everybody at this conference, uh, Nathan was polite enough to, and nice enough, uh, to support this book. Mm-hmm. And everybody got a copy of this book in their bag.

Sam Vander Wielen: One of the things I talk about a lot on the podcast is, like, just because you have an online business doesn’t mean you only have to market it online. Sure. And that’s part of what I think is so helpful. So, like, even you going around wearing the shirt, people leaving flyers in a cafe, like, whatever. I think that stuff works.

Steve Kamb: Sure. Not only that, but I mean, the, the people who are promoting- Yeah … my book, and I’ve had people ask me, say, “Oh, how’d you get these people to give you blurbs?” Yeah. It’s like, simple. I just met them at a conference 15 years ago before they were, before they were, you know, big famous whoever. Yeah And we were just friends.

Um, and it was … But it was in-person connections that then solidified any online interaction after that. So, like, coming to this was such, like, a reminder of how important in-person stuff is. Yeah. And people have said- It’s so- … “Oh, are, are you speaking on stage at this conference?” I said, “No, I’m speaking to 400 people individually, while I’m here, uh, to tell people, ‘Hey, I got a book coming out next week. You have a copy. I hope you get a chance to check it, you know, to open it and start reading it.'”

Sam Vander Wielen: Yeah, you really don’t. I mean, you really don’t need to speak here in order to make so many meaningful connections. But speaking of your book, I would love for you to p- tell people. Your book is called How to Try Again. Sure. It’s just coming out. It just came out a couple days ago, and this airs. Yep. So tell everybody what the book is about.

Steve Kamb: Sure. Um, so most books are about how to succeed with more discipline, how to be more efficient and optimized, how to win at all costs, uh, whatever. I wrote a book for the exact opposite, pr- from the opposite perspective. What happens when those things stop working? What happens when working harder doesn’t solve the problem? What happen when life kicks your ass and you’re struggling to pick up the pieces, and a project or some aspect of life didn’t go the way that you expected? Um, so that’s the book I thought I was going to write, and then my life went an interesting direction- Mm … while writing it. So I ended up writing the book I needed, uh, hoping that it can also help people that are going through it themselves. Like, hey- I’m your friend Steve. Mm-hmm. Here’s your hug. Like, yeah, this sucks.

Mm-hmm. Let’s get through it together, and let’s figure out how to try again differently and navigate whatever’s coming next, which we can’t guarantee that will go the way that we expect it to either.

I talk about in the book, like, you never go back to square one. Yeah. There’s no going back to normal. Even if you are starting over- Mm … or you fail, like, there is so much experience you get to draw from that for the next thing that might also not work. Yeah. But that’s, like, it’s entrepreneurship.

That’s the name of the game. It works until it doesn’t. Yeah. And then you take what you learn from there, and then you spin it all around, and then you stand on those shoulders of that, and then you, you keep going down this new path and see what, what happens there. Yeah.

Sam Vander Wielen: Well, thanks for doing this, Steve. I’ll drop all the links down below- Amazing … to How to Try Again. Thanks again. Howtotryagain.com. Oh, yeah. It’s so easy to find. Way easier. Yeah. Uh- Don’t click the link … check it out. I think you’re gonna love it. Thank you.

Steve Kamb: Thanks, Sam.

Sam Vander Wielen: All right, so as for what I did, I just wanted to paint a little itinerary picture for you so you kinda get a full idea of, like, what my week looks like while I’m at Craft+ Commerce before I get into all the best things I learned there and what I’m walking away from this conference thinking about changing, doing, and not doing

So in just the last couple of years, I’ve started to get included in more and more things, um, from Kit. They’re very gracious and, and kind enough to include me in things, and so my time at Craft+ Commerce has gotten longer and longer.

So these days, I arrive on Tuesday, and I immediately went to a private dinner with, um, Pat Flynn and Liz Wilcox and this entire group of people.

It’s just, like, a fantastic dinner. It was great because a lot of people hadn’t really gotten to Boise yet, so it was, like, a nice quiet night out with this whole group. I got to go last year. It was great. Um, so that was my… Really, my Tuesday was travel all day and having that dinner. On Wednesday, I got to go to Kit’s private mastermind.

So they are kind enough to invite a small handful of us on Wednesday to a private mastermind that they put on. In the past, they have had a couple of different people come in and give talks. We’ve done hot seats. We’ve networked. This year, the focus was really on James Clear and they really just wanted us to all have an opportunity to get to, you know, hear him speak and, and teach us so much about what he’s learned about, um, not only writing a book, but marketing that book on a really small and intimate level.

So I got to go to that all day. A lot of what you’re gonna hear, uh, over the next couple of minutes is, is really what I took away from that mastermind. And then, this was so cool. This actually ended up being a lot cooler than I even thought or realized, but Kit had asked me ahead of time if I would participate in a photo shoot for them and that they were, they were like, “Oh, we’re gonna use some of this stuff for our marketing materials.”

I was like, “Okay, cool.” So I got to do a photo shoot with them with some of the biggest creators in the industry, and I was just honestly sitting in this photo like, “Why am I in this photo?” Like, “I can’t believe I’m in this photo.” Um, and I also wore my stripe- my, like, favorite striped shoes, so they were very excited about that ’cause they thought it added a little pizzazz to the picture.

Um, so that was really fun and just, like, such an honor, and they also were kind enough to include, like, a whole bunch of solo shots and headshots and a bunch of stuff as a thanks for taking part in that. So that was great ’cause I got my hair done, so you know what that’s like. It’s, it’s good just to, like, take advantage and get that all done at once.

And then on Thursday, that was really the first full day of the conference. Um, we had breakfast in the morning. We had sessions all day. I would say most of my day was spent b- like, what I would call in the hallway, which was, like, between sessions or talking to people on the street, doing my little on-the-street interviews that you’ve been hearing in this episode.

Um, just really networking and talking to a lot of people. So many of you all were so kind to come up and say that you listen to the podcast, or you’ve read my book, or you’re in the Ultimate Bundle®, or something like this. So I had a lot of conversations with people who I didn’t previously know, who now I got to meet, which was really, really cool.

Kit, Kit is very kind to me, so I, I admit that. But Kit was kind enough to invite me to the speaker dinner. Because I spoke last year, they asked me to come back and go to the speaker dinner, which was, yet again, just, like, such a privilege. Got to hang out with James Clear again, who was just so nice, and ask him so many things, and see a lot of my friends, and a lot of my friends from the Kit team as well. so that was just such a fun first day. And then the second full day of the conference on Friday was really a repeat of Thursday, plus I got to do a podcast recording. Um, I went to a happy hour hosted by a friend, and then to the closing party, um, that Kit hosts every single year.

On Saturday, I really just spent the day with a lot of my Aspen buddies. So I’m in a mastermind this year called Aspen, hosted by Shawn Blanc, and, um, a few of us stuck around and just got to hang out and kinda like decompress and come down, um, off of all the big conference energy. And on Sunday morning, I woke up. I had a slow morning to myself.

To be honest with you, I was so exhausted on the one hand of like probably social battery and like a lot of outward energy and all of that, but I don’t know about you, but when I go to these kinds of things or even when I go on a vacation, I like really crave using my brain in a different way.

So I really missed like writing or working on something. Like, I just wanted to do something different. So I sat at a coffee shop, um, uh, Slow by Slow, which I love, in Boise, and I just sat and did a little bit of work, and flew back to New York City to call it a week for Craft + Commerce.

Okay, so before I share what I’m really taking away and, like, what I’m changing and not changing, um, after hearing everything I heard at Craft + Commerce, I thought I would share three quick, like, more tactical tips with you of things that I took away from Craft and Commerce, ’cause I know you probably like the tactical stuff, too.

So the first thing is that Kit unveiled this new software… Well, at least publicly. I’ve had access to it for a couple of months. I got to test it early, which was really cool, and give some feedback. But they unveiled, and now everyone has access to this new software through Kit called Signals, or a new feature, I should say, called Signals.

And Signals essentially tells you who is on your email list. It’s so cool. Like, it really… It blew my mind when I first got access to this. I was like, “Where did you guys get this data?” So essentially, you log in, and it’s, like, a dashboard, and it tells you who all these people are on your list. Like, like, let’s say I was on your email list.

It would have, like… It almost looks like a little business card with me. It would have my picture on it, and it would tell you, like, podcast host, author, lawyer, like, entrepreneur, whatever, and it would have all the links to my socials. It would tell you what my social following is. It would give me a subscriber score, like how engaged I am in your email list, et cetera.

So you can, like, just look through kind of the roster, so to speak, of who’s on your email list. You can also search. So, like, let’s say you wanted to know who on your email list has a podcast so that you could reach out to those people and ask to be on their podcast or, or vice versa, like have them on yours or something like that. You can type in podcast or, like, podcast host or whatever. It’ll pull up all the people who have that in their description or title who are on your email list. So, like, that is so cool. Or let’s say you wanted to interview authors, um, or bloggers or writers or whatever. You could type that in, and it would pull it up.

They also have some of their own categorizations on there, like, um, like VIPs in terms of, like, who’s, like, the most engaged kind of people on your email list, and it categorizes and segments them. People who are most at risk, like people who used to open emails but don’t anymore. You can sort by people with the s- the largest social following, people who have been on there the longest, you know, people who are in the most engaged, all this kind of stuff. And then if you’re familiar with Kit, like, let’s say that you looked at the, one of the categories, which is people who are, like, most ripe to buy, essentially. It’s like, it’s them saying, like, these people have clicked on your stuff a lot, but they haven’t purchased yet. You can then apply a tag to all of those people inside your Kit account so that you could send an email to all people tagged as that tag, right?

Obviously, if the numbers aren’t super high, you could reach out individually to all these people, too. So I can see it being such a huge… Like, they unveiled this at the conference and gave a couple of, like, use cases and ideas. I’ve already been playing with it on my end of, like, first of all, just finding out that there were some people on my list who I had no idea were on there.

That’s really cool. Um, there were a lot of people on there that w- who I didn’t know were there who I then saw a lot of collaboration potential with. There were people on my list who had podcasts that I was like, “Oh, they open every email that I send, but they’ve never asked me to be on their podcast.

Maybe I should just reach out and ask,” right? So I thought it from… Of course, my mind always goes to marketing first, so I thought about it kind of from that perspective. But on the sales perspective, I think the ideas are, like, endless of what you can do because of segmentation and tagging entire groups of people.

People, you know, re-rope- roping people in who are, um, there are people on there who are kinda, like, at-risk people, like, so people who aren’t engaging anymore. And I’m like, “Oh, you could tag all those people and, like, re-engage them,” right? Like, there’s so much you can do. And then on the sales side, there’s a lot you can do with, like, the people who are the most ripe.

You could hit them a little extra, right? Or, like, maybe reach out personally if there aren’t a lot of people. So there are so many things you can do with Signals. I’m so excited for everybody to have access to it now. And like I said at the top of the episode, I have a one-month free, um, Kit discount for you if you just click down below the link in the show notes.

Uh, that’s my affiliate link for Kit. This is not sponsored, but I do think that Signals alone is, like, one of the coolest features that they’ve unveiled recently.

Kit also announced their new software, their Kit MCP software, which is essentially a thing you can connect to AI that makes it all talk to one another. That’s my best way of explaining it as someone who could care less about AI and doesn’t understand it. But here’s the thing.

Kit’s MCP is actually very cool. Like, I was very skeptical ’cause I’m skeptical about most things AI, and I just, like, genuinely am not that interested and I don’t wanna get involved. But when I saw that they were rolling this out, I was like, “Okay, that’s kind of cool,” because what it does is it’s pulling all the data automatically from my Kit account into Claude.

And for someone like me, who I’m, I’m completely against or resistant to using AI to generate content, like I, I’m, I’m against generative AI, right? Like, I don’t want it writing my emails. I don’t want it writing, um, s- Substack posts or outlining my podcast episode or whatever. But on a, from a data perspective, like, that’s great.

The data’s already there. So it can pull from my Kit account, and it can tell me some, like, backend data trends and things that I didn’t see. I can ask it, like, what are my highest performing subject lines from the last six months? Um, is there a trend or a formula with my subject lines? The other day I asked it, um, in my emails to see a pattern when my click rate is higher.

Is there something about those emails, like structurally, or is there something I’m missing? Um, I, I straight up asked it the other day, um, what are three things, like blind spots that I have when it comes to my email list that you can see on the data end? So it’s really cool that they’ve given us this software and capability, and I’m sure there’s so much more you can do with it than I can do with it.

I know it has both reading and writing capability, so it can also pull from your past emails and generate a new email based on what you’ve written already, which is, like, something I’d be more open to, especially if, uh, I needed it for, like, a sabbatical or I was sick or, like, something like that, um, where you could pull a couple of emails and just, like, refresh and update them based on ones I’ve written already.

So there’s a lot you can do with that. That’s officially rolled out. They announced that at Craft+ Commerce. Um, and again, uh, that’s all included with that one month free that I linked down below.

Last but not least, the last tactical thing I wanted to share with you was that me and the team have been scratching our heads and trying to figure out how to connect Substack and Kit through Zapier for a long time, because basically I wanted it so that, uh, like right now… Okay, so I have this, like, big email list on Kit, and then I started a Substack, also called Sam Vander Wielen, and I am not pulling over my main email list to my Substack, even though some of my friends think I’m crazy for not doing that.

My thought process on not doing that is that the people who signed up for my main email list did not sign up for, like, personal emails about my dead mom, so, like, I’m keeping it, I’m keeping it separate. I also wanna kinda naturally see if I can build up Substack. We’ll see what I do in the future. But anyway, typically speaking, what, what you’d be able to do is if somebody clicked a link in an email in Kit, I would be able to create a Zap that would automatically transfer them or their information into some other software.

You can’t do that with Substack because they don’t have an API. So that has left us at a bit of a standstill. We’ve been doing things manually, which is not ideal, and, like, is onerous on the team, but also can lead to a lot of things falling through the cracks, obviously. And one of my friends said that the way that they got around this, um, they told me this at Craft & Commerce, was that when someone joins… like, let’s say somebody joins your Substack, for example, and it can then send you an email to be like, “Michelle just subscribed to your Substack.” And you can set up a thing that, in Zapier, that’s like, “When you see this email land in my email in Gmail, create a Zap that adds them to Kit.” And that’s how you can do it.

It’s like essentially you have to have it talk through your email, if that makes sense. Um, so that’s how it’s helpful to go from Substack to Kit. I’m assuming we could do something very similar from Kit to Substack in the other direction, which is how I really need it to go these days. But I think you could do it the same way, and I would probably either set up, uh, a separate email address or just set up a folder where you create a rule in Google, in, in Gmail, that everything that comes in with this subject line goes into this folder so you’re not having to deal with it, and then create, uh, a Zap that would say, “Every time this email comes in, create a Zap and do this action.”

Um, so I thought that was really smart and a, a really good workaround

All right, let’s get into my big takeaways from Craft + Commerce what I’m going to be doing, not doing, and how it really changed my thinking around several topics.

So the first thing was my… I think it shifted my thoughts on quality versus quantity. I feel like quality versus quantity is like an age-old, kind of tired tip topic thing in the content world. Like, everyone’s been saying for years, like, “Don’t, don’t do as much content, like focus on it being better.” But then, like, everybody just keeps racing to produce more and more content.

But honestly, I think that even the thought process around quality and quantity is shifting anyway. I think it’s shifting away from the old tired tip of like, “Just create less content that’s better,” to going to something that’s like, “Create when you have something to say. Create when you have something that adds to the conversation.

Create as an art form.” I’m hearing a lot more conversation… This was so prevalent at Craft + Commerce, both on stage, off stage, privately, with people who you definitely know, people who you don’t. Everybody was saying, like… I would say, like, talking about creating content more as a craft versus something to be pumped out, right?

The, the vibe I was getting is that people are really tired of schedules. You know, I don’t know if it’s that AI has demanded that or like could, could make people feel like it’s now more necessary to just like pump out, um, at some really fast clip. I don’t know if it’s that after COVID we all just feel tired ’cause we kinda like went, we went for it for years and years and years when like things were really hot, and then people just naturally, like the cycle kinda runs and you’re tired, right?

Or maybe people are just tired because I don’t know, they’re tired or because of everything that’s happening in the world or, you know, people have a lot going on in their life and behind the scenes too, to just constantly be pumping out on a schedule. I think the thing that I kept hearing over and over and over again from people was like, “I’m not a machine.

I can’t just like pump out a, let’s say a podcast episode every single Monday, regardless of what’s happening in my life.” Like, maybe you don’t have 52 insane ideas that are packaged in the perfect amount of time on a weekly tempo every year. Year in, year out, year in, year out, right? Like, that makes sense.

So I, I heard a lot of people talking about this. For me, I feel such a self-induced, like admittedly very self-induced.. Like I don’t have a boss. I am the boss, so like it doesn’t, no one’s telling me this but me, but I feel such a self-induced, um, pressure to create on a schedule. And this definitely comes from a fear of like being left behind, of falling behind, of being forgotten, of not being successful anymore, and I can tie so many stories together like a perfectly woven basket about like how well the fact that I’m so consistent is what has gotten me to be successful, so if I stop doing that, then that means I won’t be successful anymore.

And I feel like sometimes that pushes me to create content because I just have to create content versus creating content that I’m like, “Oh, I feel really passionately about this topic and I really wanna say something.”

Now, I wanna pause for a moment to like address the perfectionist cloud in the room, that like sometimes this can get taken too far, where then people are like, “I can’t say anything until I have the perfect thing to say, until I have something completely novel to say,” you know, whatever.

That’s not necessarily what I’m saying. Like, most of what we all say has been said before in some, in some way. It’s like these days I’m just thinking more about, like, what I want for myself is that I want to take more time. I wanna slow down and take more time to really create a thoughtful piece of content. So it’s not about waiting until I have the perfect thing or waiting till I have something better to say.

It’s more like I already know what I wanna say, but I wanna, like, now I wanna make it really good. You’re gonna hear me talk a lot about James Clear in this episode because I just kinda got blown away, honestly, by especially his mastermind talk, and he ta- we’re gonna talk about the category killer, uh, tip that he gave later.

But I’m essentially applying this, like, category killer tip that he had that, like, if you’re gonna create something, why not create the best in its category? And again, for my perfectionist friends, this can go way too far, and it can be like, “Oh, I can’t put this thing out till it’s perfect.” I don’t think that’s it.

I think it’s about, like, pride and really being like, “I really stand behind this thing, and I put a lot of work into it, and I made it unique, and I made it my own. I put my spin on it, and I put my voice on it.” Because when you’re just on a schedule and you’re just pumping things out, I think that is when you get into copying other people, mimicking other people.

I mean, why do you think people are copying other people anyway, right? They’re scared. They’re trying to stay on a schedule. They, they don’t have enough ideas. They’re not slowing down enough to have their own ideas. They’re not going out and living and experiencing life or their work to come up with their own ideas so that it’s all based on the premise that they have to pump out a certain amount of content, so they just go and grab somebody else’s, right?

So to me, that’s a lot of what I took away around this, like, quality/quantity conversation.

My next takeaway was about wanting something versus working for it. So you can say that you want the outcome of something, like you wanna have a seven-figure business, or you want to be a New York Times bestselling author, or you wanna have a $100,000 launch, right? But then you talk to some of the people who actually have those things or have done those things, and sometimes, if we’re introspective enough, we realize that we’re not actually doing the things that they’ve done to get there, or that you haven’t done those things yet, right? You haven’t… When you hear all the steps and the things that they have done, you’re like, “Oh, I haven’t actually done that yet.”

I was thinking about this the other day. I did an episode recently on, uh, kind of the must be nice, you know, sentiment in that, like, I have started to hear that a lot more recently, that when I talk about something, whether it’s taking, uh, an entrepreneur gap year or, like, taking time off in the summer, people will be like, “Oh, it must be nice.”

And I’m like, “I’m 10 years in.” Right? You’re in year zero or one or whatever. So sitting there and saying, “Must be nice” to me, I didn’t take a time off or a sabbatical when I was in zero or one. I worked my tush off, and now 10 years later, I’m able to do that because of the 10 years I’ve put in up till now, right?

So it’s about realizing and being honest with ourselves sometimes of, like, you’re just like, “Oh, I’m in a different place,” or like, “I’m still, I’m still in it. I’m still working towards that thing.” Right? I actually find this to be quite a relief. Like, it’s, it’s like a humbling relief in, in my mind.

I was really blown away by hearing James Clear talk about what he did for years, for 10 years, I believe, to consistently write articles that were super in-depth, well-researched.

He had read all the books on all these topics and gone really in depth and, you know, at the time, SEO reigned supreme, so he would write these incredible articles for his website And he would put so much thought and care and attention to it. And he did this for 10 years before he came out with Atomic Habits.

Even while he was writing these articles for 10- these weekly articles for 10 years, he was testing topics for the book that he wanted to write one day, the book that he didn’t know would become Atomic Habits, right? So he would pay attention to which topics his, um, newsletter people responded best to, which ones they didn’t like that much.

He would keep track of what questions they had, and then he would add those. And he had this, like, insane… I forget how… He said it was, like, hundreds and hundreds of thousands of words and hundreds of pages. I think it was, like, a 700-page Google Doc that he had going with all these notes and thoughts on what would ultimately become Atomic Habits.

It was so interesting for me to sit there and listen to him, especially as somebody who’s, like, sitting here being like, “Okay, I wanna write my second book. I’m ready to go. Like, I wanna write about this other topic. Like, and I want everybody to write about… to accept that I want to write about a different topic and, and let me pivot.” And I’m like, I haven’t put in any of that work. Like, I haven’t done any of it.

I am not saying- That you need to spend the next decade writing or something, and waiting, and researching, and reading every book. I’m not saying that. But it’s not so black and white. Like, it’s not so one or the other. It was a great moment for me, personally, of like humbling, just, I don’t know, down-to-earthness, of being like, oh yeah, like I’m in the period right now where I am getting my feet wet.

I am writing about this topic. I am building up an audience of people who are used to me talking about this. And it’s not just about me writing about something that I wanna write about, it’s writing about something and seeing what sticks with them. That’s what he did, right? He wrote about it for so long. It’s why people were so hungry and so ready, and why Atomic Habits was just like the next natural step for them to buy from him, right?

I saw the same thing with my friend Gannon Meyer, who was talking about how he creates content, and he spoke at Craft and Commerce. He was fantastic. And he was talking about when he creates content, I mean, first of all, he puts so much love and care and attention t- into like each piece of content that he creates.

He takes it so seriously, like so professional, like in a good way, right? And a lot of how Gannon has become so successful is that he’s created these Instagram reels and these YouTube videos where he’s like, “If I did Colin and Samir’s marketing, here’s what I would change,” and then he lays out and maps out this plan.

It’s such a brilliant thing. It’s also a ton of work. Colin and Samir literally hired him out of that video, right? They literally saw the video and they hired him, and he’s been working with them ever since. They’re huge, right? So, I really just like walked away from so much of this being like, oh, okay, these people are like… he- they are putting in the work. So I can’t sit there and be like, “I want a New York Times bestselling book,” and I’m like, meanwhile, I haven’t done any of the stuff that would be required, right? I used to think this when I would see people on stage, and I would be like, “I wanna speak at this conference.”

And then in the back of my head, I would be like, did you apply? Did you even try? No. Am I trying to speak on smaller stages so that one day I could, you know, have a speaker reel so I could speak on this stage? No. Like, I wasn’t taking any of the steps that would get up there. I was just kinda being like a three-year-old and being like, “I want that.”

And so I think it’s really important to have those moments with yourself where you’re like, if you really do want that, are you taking the steps to get there one day? Because the point of what I’m saying is not about beating yourself up about this and being like, you don’t, you worked that hard, therefore you don’t deserve it.

It’s not to beat yourself up and say, “Work harder,” like, “Get there, get there.” That’s not it. It’s just that you haven’t put in the time yet. Like, you need the experience. You need both the life experience, the professional experience, and maybe we’re rushing. Maybe this is just me. Maybe I’m talking to myself and you don’t do this ever.

But for me, I rush stuff. I’m like, I want the outcome, right? And I just wanna remind us that sometimes we’re living the time period right now that they lived to get where they got that we want to go. And so we just need to kinda like chill, be in the period, and put in our time.

The next thing I took away from Craft and Commerce was about belonging. Okay, so this was a very different Craft and Commerce for me because last year I spoke and it was very, like, I, I went from literally just being an attendee who didn’t know anybody and all that to, like, having a book come out and being on the main stage and having all of these people come up to me and, um, say that they had heard my talk or read my book or that they followed me on Instagram, and it was so weird and so nice and so overwhelming. It was just, like, so much.

When I was there last year, I just felt, like, out of place. Like I had gotten invited to something by accident that I didn’t belong at, and it was just kinda like, “How am I on this stage?” The same stage that, like, Tori Dunlap spoke last year, and Pat Flynn spoke last year, and I’m like, “How am I on this stage?

I don’t get it.” Um, but this year I went back with a much more, like, relaxed confidence, I would say. Um, first of all, I felt like I was the bridesmaid this year, which was great, ’cause I got to just, like, hang out but still go to all the parties, which was fun. But I also just didn’t… I don’t mean this in a cocky way, I just, like, was kind of relaxed.

Not like a, “Of course I would be here,” but I would, I would never be like that. But it was just kind of a like, “Cool. Yeah, I’m here. Like, these are just people. I’ve met all these people by now. Everybody’s cool.” And I don’t know, it just, like, I really didn’t even feel nervous even sitting on a couch next to James Clear, like, just chatting about, like, his kids and his family, and their vacations, and what’s going on in his life.

Like, it was just a very comfortable, natural thing. So I was really… I was pleasantly kinda, like, surprised about how I reacted to this, and it’s, like, something I’ve been working on, is really the sense of belonging a bit more.

I was kind of inspired before I went. I’ve, I’ve been watching, uh, maybe you’ve seen it, the miniseries on Taylor Swift’s Eras Tour, and it follows, I think it’s the last week of the actual tour. There’s this one scene when Taylor is… I think she performs in the UK, and she’s had, like, a really hard day because she met with the, um, parents of the victims of the stabbing. If you remember, unfortunately, the little children who had gotten killed at a Taylor Swift dance party. Um, and so she was, like, just devastated, as you can imagine, and she had met with their parents, and all these things, and then she had performed this live show for hours, and hours, and hours.

And when she comes offstage, she’s all sweaty, and, you know, she’s in her cool outfit, and her, like, rhinestone boots and stuff, and she gets whisked away to a car by her manager, and she kinda, like, collapses into the car, which is, like, you know, understandable. Lot of energy. And she collapses into the car, and she sticks her feet out of the car door with her rhinestone boots on, and a woman runs up and pulls the rhinestone boots off one by one.

Which I’m sure they’re hard to get off, but they pu- she pulls the rhinestone boots off, and then hands Taylor a water bottle with a straw already pre- pre-inserted, perfectly, like, primed to go straight into her mouth, and, you know, closes the door for her and whatever. And I was just like, “Wow, I could never imagine letting someone take my rhinestone boots off.”

Like, wow, right? So I talked to my mindset coach, Jen, about this, ’cause I was like, it was such an interesting moment to me just to notice. It was like she was so comfortable being taken care of, but also isn’t rude about it. I mean, from what I can see on camera, is very kind to people, and, like, knows all her people by name, and- like, is friendly with them and knows what’s going on in their lives, and it was, like, so uncomfortable for me to watch.

And Jen had said to me, you know, like, “Taylor only got to the level that she’s at by letting everybody else do everything that she can’t do in order to have the energy to do the stuff she can.

I can have this story about being a diva and not wanting to ask anybody for help, and feeling like I’m inconveniencing everybody, and, like, that I’m being too difficult, and that when I ask the team to do something, they’re like, “Why can’t she just do this herself?”

And I don’t know, that moment really hit for me about Taylor, and just thinking, like, she has to let people literally take her boots off so that she has the energy, right? Or to go get her food, or to work her out, or clean her clothes, or probably all the things that she has people do for her. But she has to do that in order to have the energy to go out there and smile after meeting with the parents of dead children who attended a dance class in her name, right?

So it’s just… It’s, it’s an example of, of… At least for me, it was a powerful example, and it was something that I tried to put into practice in, at Craft + Commerce of just kind of being like, “Of course, I can be here. I can let the team run stuff behind the scenes,” you know, while it was there. My… I brought Lindsay and Michelle from my team, um, with me to Boise and asked them to go do some stuff so that I could go do some, like, networking, and I didn’t wanna go to all of the, um, workshops and things.

And so yeah, just, like, letting myself be there and be able to be in that position. Like, enjoy the position in the business that I’ve been able to built up, build up until now.

My next takeaway was the concept I mentioned earlier from James Clear, um, that he talked about called the category killer. So he talked about this from the perspective of a book, like saying, “If you’re gonna write a book, write the one that is going to end up just killing all the other books in that category.”

But I think that this tip can be applied to anything, and it might feel extreme, and I can see that, like, with perfectionists, this could be really paralyzing ’cause you could be like, “I can’t put my podcast out until it’s the category killer. I can’t put my book or my course out until it’s the category killer.”

I like to think of it more like a lighthouse. So if category killer was the lighthouse, to me, this would just be, like, the guiding light. Like, as you’re creating this thing, are you creating something that would be capable of shutting down all the others, right? We don’t know if it literally will or not, just like he didn’t know that Atomic Habits would literally become the habits book, right?

And, like, take over his, um, entire category, let alone take over the category of nonfiction more broadly. But I think it’s just, like, a cool thing to aim for in the sense… Like, if you’re seeing a theme in a lot of what I’m bringing up, I just feel like it’s about this, like, quality, having pride, thinking of this more as your craft, being a bit more creative, taking your time with things, and really just, like, putting the best, most unique effort into what you’re creating versus just being on a schedule and pumping things out.

If you think about why so many people don’t like nonfiction, a lot of times it’s because they say that people, like, are regurgitating very simple concepts, but they’re just, like, saying it over and over and over again, or they’re saying stuff that’s already been said a million times. So I think that also goes to the category killer idea or concept, is, like, creating something that maybe hasn’t been done before or hasn’t been done in that way before, and thinking of it as, like, that’s what’s gonna kill the category, is like you’re creating the preeminent thing on this topic.

That’s how I like to think about the Ultimate Bundle®, honestly. Like, I’m like, to me, the bundle’s like why would you need anything else? Like, I created this. I was… It was the first product of its kind. It was like, “Here it is. These are all the templates you need and all the trainings you need.” Like, it kind of kills the category of what you need if you’re starting an online business.

This is, like, how to build a business in a box, right? So does that mean that since then other people haven’t, you know, riffed off it? Sure, of course they have, and so there’s competition. That’s fine. But in s- like, in general, that was the thought process with creating that kind of product.

Last but not least, I also learned this from James Clear, but he talked about concentrated strikes and his tailwind strategy. So his concentrated strike strategy was about instead of spreading your marketing efforts on, like, you know, every week applying to one podcast episode and just having it come out whenever and, like, spreading things out throughout the year, he talked about going around and kinda gathering up, like, putting all your marketing energy into contacting podcasters or asking about guest posts or contacting people on Substack or whatever it is, and organizing and collaborating a bunch of ideas or, like, whatever things, interviews you’re gonna do or whatever, and then asking for them all to come out at a specific period and kinda going with this, like, concentrated strike.

So whether that’s because you literally have something coming out or a product launching or a book releasing or something like that, or you’re like, you’re a habits person and you… Your people, like, tend to come to you all around January, right? ‘Cause it’s like new year, new you energy. So you go around at the end of the year and gather up all these podcast interviews and ask to do this and ask to be featured here and be mentioned in someone’s newsletter, and ask them all to have it come out in January.

So you just have this, like, concentrated strike and then you’re everywhere all at once. It’s just this, like, top of mind marketing strategy that I thought was really s- I mean, it’s, it’s what I do kind of naturally whe- when it comes to my launches, definitely when it came to the book launch and all of that. But I thought even the way he talked about it was so much more methodical and organized.

Now his tailwind strategy, on the other hand, was about riding the wave of what makes sense for releasing or promoting your offer. So for example, he used the example of like his book is like a great thing to give as a gift, right? Atomic Habits could make a great gift. You can give it to anyone. So he thinks about it as like, okay, you’re already buying, uh, you’re looking for a gift for Christmas or the holidays anyway. Um, you might wanna buy the person a book. Why not my book? So it’s kind of like riding the tailwind of whatever’s already happening.

I wanna kick it over to my street interview with my friend Barrett Brooks, where I got to ask him a little bit about what this year has been like for him, how he was feeling about his upcoming keynote, and how he bought an entire coaching company this year.

Hey, Barrett. How’s it going?

Barrett Brooks: Hi. Good.

Sam Vander Wielen: I’m so happy to be here with you.

Barrett Brooks: Me too.

Sam Vander Wielen: So you’re speaking today. How are you feeling?

Barrett Brooks: Yeah, I’m, I’m, like, appropriately nervous. Nerve-cited. Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s appropriate way to be. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay.

Sam Vander Wielen: So this year you bought a coaching company called Presence-Based Coaching, and this time last year we were, like, sitting here talking about you closing the deal, and now you’re sitting here a year later. You got the deal, you have the company. Yeah. You’re running retreats. How are you feeling about it?

Barrett Brooks: Yes, so I feel really good. Buying companies is hard, and I knew it would be hard, and this year has revealed the specific ways in which this one will be hard. Mm. Uh, and I’m excited about that. Like, I think that so much of business and being an entrepreneur is embracing the hard parts of the business you’ve chosen. Mm-hmm. And the hard parts of this business are the things that I wanna spend the next decade on, and I feel like we’re at the very beginning and I’m really trying to cherish being at the beginning.

Mm. Because five years from now we’ll be however much bigger, serving that many more people, and I’ll think back on this time nostalgically. Mm. And even though it feels hard and challenging, and there’s a lot of problems to solve, I don’t wanna wish it away. It’s like this is the whole point of the whole thing.

Yeah. We don’t get the time back. Um, so I’m really trying to appreciate it, and, like, really cherish every little moment and soak up the fact that I might get to run hundreds of meaningful retreats for … that change people’s lives, and that I’m at the beginner stage of something. And you don’t get that many chances to be a beginner, so.

Sam Vander Wielen: No. That is true. Yeah. Well, you’re not a beginner at giving talks. So what are you hoping that everybody gets out of your talk today?

Barrett Brooks: Oh, God. Well, you’re gonna have to cut this part if this doesn’t come true. But I actually think that my talk is gonna be the most human- Yeah … of everything that gets shared, maybe with the exception of our friend Jay. And that it may have the potential to change people on a level that most talks can’t, um, for people who are at the right place in their life and, and business. Um- And it’s me telling my story for the, the first time really in an honest and open way. And I think a lot of people- How you feeling about it? A lot of close friends are here, and I think a lot of people will be surprised by, um, just the life that I’ve lived and how I came to be as I am, and the things that have shaped my ability to support others really were grounded in me building the tools to support myself, so.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, they’re lucky to get to hear it. I’m lucky- Yeah … to hear it and know it. Um, what do you want people to, like, where do you want them to find you and follow up with you? I’m working on growing my Instagram following. Yeah. Woohoo. So Coach Barrett Brooks, uh, two Rs, two Ts, two Os. And, uh, and then my email list is great, too, so barrettbrooks.com. I send an email most Mondays that’s a breakdown of a coaching session that costs someone else about $2,000, and you get the takeaways for free.

Sam Vander Wielen: Yeah, his stuff is absolutely amazing, highly recommend. I’ll put all the links in the description, but thanks so much for doing this with me.

Barrett Brooks: Yeah, thanks for having me.

With that, I hope you liked this Kit Craft + Commerce recap episode. Don’t forget, you can click my Kit affiliate link, um, down in the show notes to get your first month free. And if you don’t already, make sure you sign up for my Kit newsletter, Sam’s Sidebar. It’s my weekly newsletter, uh, that almost 67,000 of you get every single week with all of my best behind-the-scenes business building tips. Um, it’s definitely going to be the thing you’re gonna want to sign up for because that’s really going to be the only place you’re gonna hear from me this summer in real time. So make sure you sign up for Sam’s Sidebar down below. It’s completely free. With that, I’ll chat with you next week.

Sam Vander Wielen: Just kind of hold it like a dainty girl. Like a dainty… I am a dainty girl. I’ve always been a dainty girl. Okay. I’ve never been- I like to take all the gloves in and out. I’ve never been accused of being a dainty girl.

Steve Kamb: Well, hey, we were just talking about you- Oh, hey … James Clear. We were just literally having an interview.

Sam Vander Wielen: You guys wanna be on the podcast? Yeah. You wanna come on over? Well. Yeah, you’re in that book. Who are you? Yes, you can. Who are you? Who are you?

Mike Pacchione: Hey, my name’s Mike Pacchione and I’m on page 89. 89 of the hardback.

Sam Vander Wielen: This man harasses me all the time. Yeah, Mike’s on page 89.

Steve Kamb: James is on page 173 or something. This is my stalker. I’ll sign it. Yeah. This is my stalker, Mike Pacchione. Mike Pacchione page 89. You should.

Sam Vander Wielen: Why are you also dressed like you’re going to rob a bank?

Mike Pacchione: What do you mean? Oh, I, I kinda am. Bank robber, bank robber outfit.

Sam Vander Wielen: You and James look like you guys just got done beating someone up.

Sam Vander Wielen: This is great material here. Yeah, this is great. You’re like, “This podcast is gone.” What are you, what are you actually talking about? Oh, we were talking about Steve’s book.

Sam Vander Wielen: Like, we’re obviously editing this shit out of this.

Thanks so much for listening to the On Your Terms® podcast. Make sure to follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen to podcasts. You can also check out all of our podcast episodes, show notes, links, and more at samvanderwielen.com/podcast. You can learn more about legally protecting your business and take my free legal workshop, Five Steps To Legally Protect and Grow Your Online Business at Samvanderwielen.com and to stay connected and follow along, follow me on Instagram at samvanderwielen and send me a DM to say hi.