93. Sustainable Scaling with Business + Mindset [ft. Mindset Coach Naomi Powell]

Sustainable Scaling with Business with mindset coach Naomi Powell

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Naomi Powell is the owner of The Lifestyle Edit, and she joins me to chat about business, money mindset, and how our childhood and experiences influence us as entrepreneurs. Naomi Powell is a business and mindset coach who knows how to attract dream clients through attraction, marketing, and soulful sales. She’s built a profitable multiple six-figure company using these techniques and teaches hundreds of women how to do the same. We discussed building a business on our own terms, designing it around our lives instead so we can achieve long term success.

Sustainable Scaling with Business & Mindset Coach Naomi Powell

In this episode, you’ll hear… 

  • How to build a successful business while enjoying the process
  • Healing your relationship with money
  • Being adaptable to new trends so you can scale effectively
  • Having a business plan geared towards your actual goals
  • Finding a balance between business requirements for your short-term and long-term visions

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3 Steps to grow a sustainable business

In this article, we’ll provide a summary of the 3 steps you should take to grow a sustainable business. Be sure to tune into episode 93 for the full discussion! 

Step 1: Build a business you love (without burning out)

Start by asking yourself better questions. As you start your business, don’t just do all the things without considering why and how you want to feel. Reflect on your brand identity and whether your business model is something that aligns with what you want. Don’t just go, go, go; make sure that your business model feels good right now. Your business growth should come from a place of alignment, not from the idea that hitting an arbitrary benchmark will make everything fall into place.

In the quest for more, we sometimes forget to ask ourselves fundamental questions like —  “What do you actually want?”

Step 2: Fix your mindset around money

Many of us have deep emotional wounds around money that affect our relationship with it — how we perceive it, pursue it, and ultimately what we do with it. Naomi’s own relationship with money wasn’t great when she first started, but as she worked on her business, she worked on healing those wounds as well.

Naomi believes that it’s important to give yourself evidence of safety in regards to money. She suggests mastering the ability to sell in order to be able to provide for yourself regardless of the terrain. When you have that ability, you know that even if things went to zero tomorrow, you’d be able to build back up again. No one can take that away from you.

Step 3: Build a business on your terms

While Naomi’s approach to business might be different from yours or mine, the key here is to build a business that works for you so you can achieve sustainable growth. When you’re just starting out, it’s common for entrepreneurs to have to do everything themselves. Businesses grow at their own pace but as you scale, you’ll find that you have the freedom to do less instead of more. This could lead to you adding a team member or contracting out services and you’ll have the leverage to focus on the things that you enjoy and that move the needle for you. The result and payoff will be the goal of running the kind of business you want.

Business Mindset Tip

Business Scaling Experience

As you’re growing your business, it’s important you don’t get caught up in how you think you should be doing things. Remember, you likely started your small business for greater freedom or to build something that sustains your life. 

Important: Don’t lose sight of that. Especially if you’re chasing metrics that move you further away from your goal.

Episode Transcript

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Sam Vander Wielen: Hey there, and welcome back to On Your Terms. I’m your host, Sam Vander Wielen. I’m an attorney turned entrepreneur who helps online coaches and service providers legally protect and grow your online business using my DIY legal templates and my Ultimate Bundle program.

And on today’s episode, I invited my friend Naomi, the owner of The Lifestyle Edit, to come and chat with us all about our businesses, our money mindset, how stuff from our childhood and our past experiences influence us as entrepreneurs today. We talked about so much in this episode. I’m really excited for you to dive in.

Naomi and I, we talked a lot about building a business really on your terms. So, I think her kind of approach to business, although it’s so different than mine in so many ways, is also so similar to mine in really designing your business around your life and not the other way around. So, I hope you’re ready for this conversation.

All right. Without further ado, Naomi Powell is a business and mindset coach. When it comes to attracting dream clients through attraction marketing and soulful sales, Naomi knows her stuff. She’s used it to generate a profitable, multiple six figure company, and teaches hundreds of women how to do the same. Please sit back, relax, throw in your sneaks, take a walk, and enjoy this conversation with Naomi Powell.

Hey, Naomi, welcome to On Your Terms.

Naomi Powell: Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to dive in.

Sam Vander Wielen: It’s been a long time coming, so I’m so excited to have you here. I remember when I first asked you to be on, like when I first started the podcast, and I was so nervous not about talking to you, I talk to you all the time, but about starting this podcast. So, I can’t believe we’re here. I can’t believe it.

Naomi Powell: I know. I was, like, in Babyland when you first did it, and so much has happened, so I feel like this is such a great time for us to be diving in.

Sam Vander Wielen: Yeah. That’s a good place to start, actually, like, catch us up. I know a lot of people in my audience know you already. And so many people, when I shared that you’re coming on, they’re like, “I love Naomi.” So, I know that we have so many friends in common too. But catch people up is the kind of where you’ve been at this past year in business and in life. Obviously, they’re one and the same.

Naomi Powell: This has been such an interesting year for me. I was laughing with a former client of mine and friend that, you know, you often hear this like, set your work for the year and all of this kind of stuff. And while I am so for that, this year was a prime example of the fact that you never know how the year is going to go. And sometimes when we’re trying to strong arm it so much, I feel like that’s where a lot of the pressure and the resistance comes. Like, the year turned out completely differently, but exactly how it was supposed to be.

I thought that I was really ready for, like, new season of growth. You know, I had my daughter in May of last year. As the New Year came around, like she was six months old, I was really starting to feel like my energy was coming back and we were in a real rhythm. And, yeah, it was a really busy start of the year. Because of my experience having her, I realized that in the midst of what was quite a challenging pregnancy, I realized that I had been the product in my business for a really long time and that that was really unsustainable.

So, we really focus on the first half of the year on really kind of building out our assets in ways that people can kind of come into my world without it being dependent on me showing up live. And after really working for eight months from last year into this year on it, we ended up having our first multiple six figure month. And I was just like, “Oh, I thought that this would be the time where I’d really be ramping things up.” And I was just like, “No. No.” Something in me was just like, “No. Let’s take a beat for a minute. Let’s actually really integrate this. And do you really want to go for more right now?” And so, that’s what the year got, it took a completely different turn.

Where, just even being in therapy a lot this year, I’ve really started asking myself bigger questions about like, what is enough? Am I going for growth? Because it’s just like we’re in a society that’s constantly glorifying more and more and more and more. Or do do I actually want it? What does it look like to just be in this present moment?

And I think when I started to really unpack it, I realized that I was addicted to personal growth. I was addicted to achieving in my business. And the more that I started to see that, the more I couldn’t unsee it. So, a lot of this year, to be honest, has really been about looking at these things, taking a minute to really take stock, and think what do I actually want moving forward, what does my business need to look like in this very interesting season of my life where I have two kids under three, what actually feels really nourishing for me, and what is mine and what is not. So, a lot of deconditioning, a lot of asking myself big questions, and a lot of giving myself permission to just move at my own pace.

Sam Vander Wielen: Yeah. I love that. I think in our industry, it’s so easy because we have capitalism hanging over us, teaching us since we’re little kids that were supposed to constantly be going for more, that money is always the answer to everything, and this nothing’s ever good enough that you should never settle. So, it just keeps you. It’s like this beautiful idea to just keep you in this rat race to keep going for more.

But then, we entered into an industry that also feeds into this, because then we have not only the money thing. And I always joke with everyone that the number of figures just keeps getting bigger and bigger. And then, we have followers and subscribers and listeners and all of the things.

But a lot of people who are listening are probably earlier on in their business journey, and they might be wondering what can they do now that would have helped you maybe along the way. They still want to build a successful business, but they don’t want to get to this place of burnout or this place of feeling like they’re going after results but not really enjoying them. What can they do along the way?

Naomi Powell: I always say that we have to start asking ourselves better questions. I think what often happens when we start our business is that the sheer excitement of all of it, we’re just doing all the things and we’re looking at how things are done and we’re just kind of adopting it. And then, you can look back years in and just be like, “This whole business model doesn’t even feel good to me.”

So, what I would really invite you to be reflecting on as you’re starting out is, What am I building? Why am I building it that way? And how do I actually want to feel in my life? What do I want my experience to look like?

It is so easy to recreate in your business exactly what many of us have run away from in our corporate jobs. So, I feel like that’s a really powerful question to start with, so that you’re building a business model from the beginning that aligns with that. What I see a lot of people do is, again, it’s like, just go, go, go, go, go, I need to just do something. And then, yeah, they fall out of love with the business model. And then, they’re growing from this place of when I get there, then I’ll feel good. That’s not the way to grow.

How can it feel so good right now? That doesn’t mean that we’re leaning back and we’re not doing the work. But the business model, fundamentally, is one that feels in alignment so growing it is more of what you want versus this fantasy that once I hit an arbitrary benchmark then everything’s going to fall into place.

Sam Vander Wielen: Yeah. It’s like a lot of us are chasing after someone else’s dream. It’s kind of easy on social media because you see a lot of people blasting their dreams, showing you kind of living out their dream. And then, I think we all sort of assume that that’s what we should be going after, and then we start mimicking. And then, that’s when you get to my land of copying people. But, in general, don’t you think that’s kind of what happens?

Naomi Powell: Yeah. I think it’s because we, just as a society, we’re not wired to ask ourselves questions like what do I actually desire. I get perplexed sometimes where I’m having conversations with entrepreneurs, like, “If you could do it any way, how would you do it?” And they’re like, “Oh, I never even considered that. I never even thought about it.” What do you actually want? Take the money away, what do you actually want? And I think in the quest of just more and more and more and more and more, we don’t actually ask ourselves these more fundamental questions.

Sam Vander Wielen: Yeah. And we don’t really focus then either on the quality of the product or the service and then the impact that we’re having either.

Naomi Powell: Completely. Completely.

Sam Vander Wielen: So, when you started out – I mean, I’ve met you very early on. I would imagine even before that – I imagine you weren’t exactly where you are now mindset-wise. So, give me a little snapshot of kind of like what was Naomi’s position on money and self-growth and self-care when you started versus where you’re at now?

Naomi Powell: Well, I didn’t grow up with a lot of it, so a lot of my mindset in the beginning was very much about safety. I never felt safe when it came to money, so there was always this lingering like the rug can be pulled from underneath me at any moment. And this kind of need to control every single variable, because it’s Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs, it’s like safety. And that’s where the overworking came from because it was like hard work is something that I know how to do well, so I will do whatever it is required in order to feel safe.

And the good thing is that it gave me that real drive and commitment in the beginning, which I think is required to get a business off the ground. But you can also begin to really hoard money because you’re not used to holding money or having money. And your beliefs around the consistency in which money shows up for you is not cemented yet. This is all very new thing. So, I definitely, in the early days, kind of hit upper limits around money.

And because I’d come from a situation where money was so scarce, I definitely projected onto my ideal clients and the people that I wanted to work with that everything that I was having about money, they felt it too. So, victimizing people, mothering people, holding myself back from charging what I needed to be charging and what my services were worth, because it was very much from this like, “Oh. I want to help people, but they’re incapable. Of course, they’re not going to be able to pay the prices. Who could pay these prices?” And, yeah, it slowed me down.

So, for me, the money stuff has been the work of a lifetime because it is the place where I have the most core wounds and the most conditioning around. And just a word of encouragement for anyone who’s listening, who has things like this where it feels sometimes like some people start their businesses and they’re straight out of the womb, and they go from zero to a gazillion dollars, we all have different conditionings. We all have different childhood experiences with some of these things.

And naturally, it’s like when you go into a new apartment and they’ve got wallpaper laid on top of each other and paint, and trying to get that stuff off, it takes time. So, it’s going to look different for everyone. But that’s why I’ve been so diligent in doing this work, because I knew that that was going to be the thing that slowed me down if I didn’t put that time and commitment into working through it.

Sam Vander Wielen: Totally. And I’m sure so many people can relate to that. So, what did you feel, like what was the most helpful to you in working through these kind of core wounds and how your experience with money showed up in your business?

Naomi Powell: I had to start giving myself more evidence that it was safe, that I was safe. And so, I feel like it’s strategic, but it’s also practical. I focus on selling. Sometimes there’s a lot of conversations about manifesting the money and sitting back and holding the energy for the money to just come. I’m as woo as they come, but I’m deeply practical. I have only started to loosen my grip when I gave myself evidence in my ability to sell.

So, when I first started, that was my priority. It’s like for this to be a business that can actually support me, these are skills that I absolutely have to master. And, you know, even think about this climate right now, there’s a lot of people who understandably are very afraid with talks of the recession and the economies and all of this. I was very clear that the ability to sell is my safety.

You think of entrepreneurs who have created multiple startups or have dealt with things like bankruptcy, and then they start a new business and they scale back to the same point as they were before. Why? Because they’ve amassed a skillset that will allow them to provide for themselves regardless of the terrain. So, I was obsessive about knowing that because I knew that that is going to be the thing that always holds me in good stead.

And I remember reading a book, I can’t remember what book it was, and it was like, what would you prefer, someone to give you $100,000 or $1,000,000, or someone to teach you how to do that? I’m always like, teach you, because no one could ever —

Sam Vander Wielen: You can do it over and over.

Naomi Powell: Yeah. You could do it over again and no one can ever take that away. And that just allowed me to move with so much confidence because I was no longer feeling like my safety was contingent on this specific person saying yes or this specific thing going well. I stepped into so much trust in me and my ability to support myself, and that was the game changer.

Sam Vander Wielen: Yeah. I can really relate to that, and you know this, I feel like we both really hustled really hard in the beginning of our businesses, and we still do. But we did and we really learned and acquired the skills ourselves. And I’m a big proponent of that, of like I like to do things myself, kind of get my hands around it and understand it, and then be like, “Okay. Now, I can outsource this, but I need to understand it, too, so that I can make strategic decisions before I offload it.”

But I’m with you that this acquisition of skills and experiences along the way, and it’s something that I don’t think people appreciate enough, is that they’ll feel like something’s not working out or things aren’t going fast enough for them or something like this. And I’m like, This is all good. This is all data. And you should just be learning and experiencing and absorbing. And this is going to give you the confidence later on to be like, I pivoted, I figured it out, I made it work.

Naomi Powell: One hundred percent. And that’s the thing, you know, you hear these quotes, it’s so true. The person who’s successful is because they failed so many more times than you. I see everything, all of my experiences, this was a real game changer for me, especially at the beginning were exactly that. Like, there was a time where I’d be so afraid to put things out because, like, what if they don’t work?

And, again, allowing our emotions to put us in a chokehold. And I really had to start to move through that. “Okay. What if that happens? What if your worst case scenario happens?” It takes the drama out of it. It’s like you’ve experienced it. You survived. You actually were able to build your emotional intelligence and your self-leadership in those moments. Self-trust is a muscle that needs to be exercised, and it’s forged in the fires of courage and faith. So, the more I was starting to exercise those muscles, again, the more I started to trust myself.

Sam Vander Wielen: That makes a lot of sense. I’m sure that’s going to be very helpful for people in learning that we have to start trusting ourselves. But I think all of this comes back to safety for so many people, whether your safety goes back to a money safety or abandonment safety, there’s all different kinds of things.

I’m so curious, too, if you could go back and you were starting your business over again, is there any advice or wisdom that you would pass along to yourself? Any ways that you would do things differently now?

Naomi Powell: There isn’t. I wouldn’t be at the stage of business that I am without all of those experiences. And what I am really known for is I scaled a big business without compromising my family, my life, my alignment. And why is that? It’s because I’ve tried so many things. And if you look at my business model, every single piece of it is super dialed in. It’s incredibly leveraged. It’s incredibly effective. And it’s so squeaky clean because I’ve allowed myself to experiment with things, and I’m like, “Oh, I understand.”

That’s the thing with strategy, people often say, “Well, I tried that and it didn’t work or I burnt out.” You have to use your own discernment, right? So, I will try things out and I’m like, I need to understand why that strategy works. And then, now, how do I do it my own way. My data showed this part of it works. This part of it didn’t. I’m scratching that. I’m putting my twist on it.

And so, for a while, I remember there were years where I feel like I’ve kind of gone around the houses instead of just like committing to one thing. But I think that that is why at this stage my business feels as dialed in and aligned as it is, because all of this has kind of come together to land me exactly where I am right now. And, you know, there’s something to be said for lived experience versus theory.

Sam Vander Wielen: Yes, very much so. I actually just did an episode all about this, about asking people to stop relying so much on correlation and start understanding causation in business. And so, a lot of what we see being perpetuated on social media and stuff is just people doing correlation, like, “Oh, I did this, therefore that happened.” But they don’t understand why that happened, that’s why they can’t replicate it for other people’s businesses.

Naomi Powell: One hundred percent. And, also, I’m so pleased that you mention this, because we make so many assumptions. So, this person is doing this on social media, so that’s why they must be getting the result. They may be getting the result in spite of what they’re doing on social media. Like, connections are not always causal.

Sam Vander Wielen: Yeah. It’s so true. I’m sure that’s what a lot of people think about me. But then, as you know, a lot of what I’m doing that’s working is stuff that’s behind the scenes that people can’t see. And it’s also kind of funny that it’s like the unsexy stuff. Like, nobody knows how much website traffic I get. And nobody knows how highly I rank on Google. No one cares. They only want to see Instagram followers or something. And so, when people will be like, “Oh, wow. Your account really grew.” I’m like, “Right.” But that’s not why the business has grown necessarily. It’s part of it, but it’s not it.

Naomi Powell: It’s interesting you say that, and that’s why I have been really torn and have kind of come to this place where I don’t really want to talk about numbers, because it’s hard. Because having women actually talk about money and numbers has been so supportive for me in my journey to just see what’s possible. But I think people confuse ease seven years into a business with easy. And will come and be like, “So, Naomi, let’s talk about this financial independence stuff. You know, I want to have the ease in this that you do.” And I’m just like, “You haven’t even gotten off yet.”

You’re looking at my chapter number ten. Just because I have ease does not mean that this is easy. None of this is random. There’s been a lot of work. There’s been a lot of time investment, a lot of financial investment and resources that has come to unlock this level of ease. And I never want to create the illusion that this is easy.

Sam Vander Wielen: Exactly. And it’s also not static. It’s also something that we’re continuing to work on every day. Behind the scenes, there’s ease in our day-to-day because of how you and I have prioritized our businesses and stuff like that. But I don’t know, I didn’t figure out one solution then that’s the solution I’m replicating for the rest of my business life. We’re still very much in it. We’re experimenting. It never stops. I think that’s something maybe people don’t understand, they think all the experimentation, the messing up starts in the beginning, and then you just reach this point where everything’s flat from there on. But as you know, that’s not how it is. We’re still adapting and changing.

Naomi Powell: Yeah. One of the biggest skillsets, I believe, to be a CEO of a successful company is about being malleable. Malleable isn’t the same as having Shiny Penny Syndrome, where trends, you’re instantly jumping on it. And your business doesn’t have any priorities and any kind of trajectory that you are daring the ship in. It is about having the discernment to be like, “Okay. Just because things have been working this way before doesn’t mean they’re always going to work this way. So, how can we have focus while also creating space for iterations, for pivots, for refinements?”

And I think that’s it. I think that that’s the quality. It’s just like not resting on your laurels and just assuming that things are always going to be the same. And, also, not making that a dramatic thing. I think that it always happens as your business grows that there’s going to be one part of your organizational chart that needs more attention. You have your leads dialed in and then there’s something in the backend, like your systems, that need to be upgraded, or whatever. And I think it’s just really recognizing and honoring that change is the only constant. So, how can we remain open and kind of in our grace as things naturally ebb and flow?

Sam Vander Wielen: Yeah. I love change. I’m like, thank goodness, because things would be really boring if I was doing the same thing the same way for so many years. Speaking of change, what’s going on in your business right now? Where are things at? What’s something that you’re kind of excited about?

Naomi Powell: What am I really excited about? I am really excited about many things. So, recently, I decided to retire from the online facilitation part of my business, which is so bittersweet because I love teaching live. I love feeding off of that energy. But I knew for many reasons it was time for me to transition. At this stage of my journey, I definitely see myself as someone who is a mentor for those who are kind of at the more advanced leg of their journey.

I think there’s some fantastic resources for people who are just getting started. I have many of them. But I think the nuances when you’re scaling, when you’re in that scaling phase, there aren’t a lot of mentors who want to work intimately with people. There are a lot of mentors at that stage who can support people at that level are focused on more leveraged offers, because I really, really love that.

So, working with just a handful of people who are really going into the weeds of a lot of the themes that you and I are talking about today, so I’m really excited to really expand my capacity to really hold a handful of people throughout the year and just go really deep in some of those areas.

I’m really excited also to be firing myself from, like, 90 percent of the stuff that I used to do in order to really sit more in the executive seat in my business. And that really means, not only thought leadership externally outwards, but also leadership of my team and really making sure that my team is set up to thrive. And I’m really supporting them, and nurturing them, and really giving a bigger context for our company where their kind of dreams can live within where the business is really going. That’s a really exciting thing for me right now.

And really amplifying some of the incredible resources that we’ve already had. Because a lot of my time has been in live facilitation, I haven’t always had the bandwidth to really amplify what we already have. So, I’m really excited to be able to also, on the flipside, have more bandwidth to create lots of content and really bring awareness to some of these tools that we’ve created.

Sam Vander Wielen: That is so cool. I’m excited to watch this all unfold as I have been the last several months. But I think that, you know, you mentioned kind of more of what this has allowed you to focus on in the business versus what you’re able to let go. I always think people like to know a little bit about when you’re at your stage of business, what exactly are you doing? Like, give us a little sneak peek behind your day, maybe the structure of your week as to what kinds of things are you executing, what kinds of things are you doing, and maybe what you’re not doing too.

Naomi Powell: So, one of the things that I always do is – and I’m in a habit of doing this – I’m always auditing my weeks. So, what we do is we think of what’s the big priorities for the business right now. And then, we whittle that down to, like, one or two, preferably, quarterly rocks, what is the big project. And then, each member of my team will have their own rocks that feed into those big kind of company rocks, including myself.

So, I’ll be looking at the end of the week and thinking, How much time was I actually spending on those things that were my rocks and the things that I need to treasure? I really use Mike Michalowicz’s model of what do you need to trash, what do you need to trim, what do you need to transfer, what do you need to treasure. So, the things that only I am uniquely positioned to do.

And I’m routinely then thinking at the end of the week, how much time did I actually spend doing that? What were the ways that my time or my energy or my capacity was pulled elsewhere? Is this something that could be delegated to an existing team member? Or was this something that we always need to put into a Word doc of some of the activities that would be our next hire? So, the big part of my job is thinking like, Where are the gaps? How can I continue to delegate more? And planning for what future hires will be.

In terms of how I spend my time, I think at this stage of business, it’s really important to have a marketing system, a sales system, a delivery system. So, my role is more about thought leadership and creating original pieces of content that then gets to be used and amplified, like where our marketing system gets to run the show where we have SOPs and ways of doing things. And my team can manage the lion’s share of the delivery of those different limbs.

So, in terms of the things that I safeguard every week, I record for my podcast. I take a lot of time and love to write my weekly newsletters. I manage my team. I support my clients. And I pretty much don’t do anything else. It’s definitely a balance. I think sometimes early stage entrepreneurs hear people talking about the fact that you need to be more in the CEO role and you need to be thinking about the future. But if you’re thinking about the future, who’s actually running your business?

And this is where the incomes can dip because they start to take that advice, and they spend all of this time planning and doing all of that kind of stuff where there’s not actually executers. It is so important in the beginning, like, do not forget to sell. Selling is the lifeblood of your business. You can get around to that. Focus on stabilizing the business that you actually have. The more you’re profitable, you have more resources, you can invest more in systems, you can invest more in team.

That then gives you the ability to focus on big picture, like vision casting, like how is the market changing, like how can we be adapting, like spending more time thinking long term without actually compromising the business that you actually have today. So, because I really have those systems in place, that gives me more time to think, to plan, to see a lot of those things.

Sam Vander Wielen: It reminded me, when you said that I was thinking, I had this image in my mind of someone driving and they’re looking way off in the distance, like the road way down. But then, right in front of them, there’s a giant curve and they’re not looking at it because you’re so focused on the distance and the road ahead of you. And I can totally relate to that. It’s a lot and I think people don’t maybe understand at this point in business, you are managing what’s going on right now and trying to navigate and foresee the future. So, it’ quite a bit to navigate. Yeah, go ahead.

Naomi Powell: A really powerful question that I ask myself and I invite my clients to ask themselves, too, is, Could you potentially sell your business? Many of you listening are like, “I would never sell. Why would I ask that question?” It’s because many of us say that we want freedom businesses, but our business models are not actually designed to be freedom businesses. So, that’s why I think that this is a really powerful question to ask.

And ask yourself, If you were to buy another company, what would be the criteria that you use? When you start to look at it, when people are buying companies, they look for stable, repeatable, reliable income. Does this business have recurring income? Are they showing me that there’s that product market fit and that their cash flow is not going to just nosedive? What does that look like? Companies that actually have monthly recurring revenue have bigger valuations than companies do not.

They are also looking for, Is all of the systems and ways of operating in the CEO’s head? Or can we come in and it’s like a plug and play that we know how to manage this business? Do you see what I’m saying?

Sam Vander Wielen: Totally.

Naomi Powell: These are all of the things, like, if you actually want a business to be able to sustain itself in a way where you are not literally having to carry it on your back, as unsexy as some of these things sound, it’s really important. So, while I have no intention of selling my business and it’s very much connected to my face, the way it’s run in the backend is very, very streamlined. So, that’s what a lot of my time and attention outside of being public-facing is spent on.

Sam Vander Wielen: Yeah. That’s why I always think that the frontend might appear like a personal brand, but the backend very much is not. And someone else could very easily continue to generate this kind of revenue with it. So, yeah, it’s really interesting. I’m glad you brought that up.

I was curious where in all of this, like, what’s your current status of your relationship with social media. If you were setting your Facebook status for social media, what would it be? It’s complicated, married, engaged.

Naomi Powell: It’s interesting. Like, you never hear me complaining about social media.

Sam Vander Wielen: No. Why is that when so many other people do?

Naomi Powell: I’ve built my business for free on this platform. I will never, ever complain about that. Even just sometimes it’s great, like, just talking to my mom, and every day, it blows her mind that I get to be at home with my babies. I get to, literally, run my life or my fight.

Like, last year, I barely even opened my laptop. I don’t even have email on my phone. And I still run this business at the size that it is. It is remarkable. And I think sometimes we can get a little bit entitled around it. You have to decide how to use social media in a way where you feel like you are using it and it is not using you. But that’s our responsibility.

There have been times, definitely, where I felt like social media has felt really exploitative, and performative, and requiring you as a expert to constantly be giving every single ounce of your genius away for free in perpetuity. But it’s our job to notice when that happens and tweak the business strategy.

And so, for me, I really focus on creating pillar content that is really powerful and that we get to use in places like Instagram. So, I’m not having to create a million and one things and really burning out and feeling like I’m having to keep up with this. And I’m just also really protective of my energy. If you desire to take that next step, come and join us. There are literally from a $30 a month membership right through to private coaching, there’s something for everyone. So, I just don’t feel under any kind of pressure to play a game that I don’t want to.

Sam Vander Wielen: I’m very with you on that one. And it’s such a refreshing perspective. Because there’s all the hacks and the strategies and so much noise around, “Oh. The algorithm and this is changing and that’s changing.” And I’m just like, “Who cares? I’m just here for the ride. I do what I can. I get what I can from it. And my business isn’t built on that.” You know, you and I talked about this on your podcast in the episode we did recently, which I’ll make sure I link to below. But we talked about this where people are like, “But all my leads are coming from Instagram.” And I’m like, “Well, that’s the problem. Not Instagram changing its algorithm,” to me.

Naomi Powell: Exactly. And Instagram is a business. They’re taking care of their business. They don’t owe you anything. So, yeah, let’s shake it up a little bit.

Sam Vander Wielen: Yeah, totally. Well, as you know, my podcast is called On Your Terms, so I was curious how are you building your business on your terms right now and in the future?

Naomi Powell: So, right now and in the future, my business model always has and always will evolve around my life. I’m not wedded to any one way of doing it. And I think that that’s also why my business has always felt aligned regardless of what my life looks like. Because I see a lot of entrepreneurs who stick with something that they don’t like, brings them no joy, because they know it and they’re attached to it, and they also see a lot of safety connected to this.

Again, I know that I’m the secret sauce. I can turn my hand to anything that I want to do. And I have no doubt that I’m going to be successful. And that’s not from an arrogant place, that’s just from self-belief. So, we could have this podcast interview in three years time and things will probably look very different, and I like it that way.

So, with everything that I do, I always ask myself, like, this is my life. This is my one frigging life. How do I want to feel in my life every single day? This is not me being Tom Cruise jumping on the sofa and this remarkable thing has happened. But my energetic set point, like, how do I feel in my body on a day-to-day basis? What does that look like?

And one of my favorite quotes of all time, which I’m going to butcher, from Wayne Dyer. Someone asked him like, “What’s your job?” What would you say your job is?” And he’s like, “I just live my life and life works through me, and books come out, speaking, and this and that. So, I always start with my life first, how do I want to show up with my life? My kids are very young. I want to be really present. I want to be really hands-on. I’m not going to get this time back. So, what does my business model need to look like to facilitate me being that for them and for myself?

And, also, being able to live out my dreams and aspirations and have that intellectual challenge in my business. What does my version of end in this very moment look like? And I’m always paying attention to my schedule. I looked at my schedule and I kind of had that feeling in my stomach. Or I’m always noticing, like, what feels off. And as business owners, it is our job to be connected enough to ourselves to discern when things are feeling off, and have the power to make swift decisions. So, I don’t try and convince myself to do things that I don’t want to do. The moment I feel that something is off, I shift it.

Sam Vander Wielen: Yeah. It’s very intuitive. I love it. That’s so cool. Thank you for sharing that with me. So, I have a fun little section of On Your Terms for you, which is a little game of Would You Rather. Are you ready?

Naomi Powell: Oh, God.

Sam Vander Wielen: No, they’re all good. They’re all PG, I swear. Very PG. Okay. So, would you rather read fiction or nonfiction?

Naomi Powell: Fiction.

Sam Vander Wielen: Have you read anything lately that you’ve liked?

Naomi Powell: No. No, I haven’t. I’ve actually been having a little bit —

Sam Vander Wielen: A book [inaudible].

Naomi Powell: … of a hiatus at the moment to give my brain a little bit of mental space.

Sam Vander Wielen: Yeah. I’ve been like that too. I normally read a ton. And this year, I have not, so I’m with you on that one. Would you rather live at the beach, the mountains, the city, or the desert?

Naomi Powell: The beach.

Sam Vander Wielen: You can come live with me.

Naomi Powell: Yeah. Exactly. I’ll come and live with you. Or come and live your like Jen Aniston, Malibu Beach house dreams.

Sam Vander Wielen: That’s my dream. Would you rather order coffee or tea?

Naomi Powell: Coffee, always.

Sam Vander Wielen: What’s your go to coffee order?

Naomi Powell: I like oatmilk cappuccino latte.

Sam Vander Wielen: Yeah, that sounds really good. You know what I was noticing the other day at the fancy coffee shops, is that when you order a cappuccino, they don’t put cinnamon powder on it anymore. And I was watching Frasier last night, and he orders a cappuccino, and there’s all this cinnamon powder. And I was like, “Bring back the cinnamon powder. I miss it.”

Naomi Powell: I’m so full of that.

Sam Vander Wielen: Yeah. Me, too. Okay. This is a very controversial one. Would you rather clean up as you go or clean up at the end when you’re cooking?

Naomi Powell: This is super controversial in our house. I clean up as I go. Michael takes out every single spice, every single ingredient, every single cooking utensil in our house. And then, he’d be like, “But I cooked, so you have to wash up.” And I’m like, “How is that even fair?” Because it’s like the bane of contention in my life.

Sam Vander Wielen: That was really funny. Everyone says the same thing, it’s so funny. Michael, you got to not take everything out, buddy. All right. Would you rather hit up a fancy restaurant or go to the best food trucks?

Naomi Powell: Fancy restaurant all day, every day, as you know.

Sam Vander Wielen: I love it. Thank you so much, Naomi. This was so much fun. I was hoping you would tell everybody how to find you, where to get in touch with you, and how they can work with you.

Naomi Powell: Yeah. So, definitely head over to our website, thelifestyleedit.com. I am @thelifestyleedit on Instagram. We have our Lifestyle Edit Podcast. We had an amazing episode with Sam, definitely go and check it out. I love the podcast. I love the conversations that we share. And one of my favorite things to do is our weekly newsletter. This is where I go so much deeper into a lot of the things that I’m moving through, learning in real time. So, if that’s of interest to you, definitely come and join us over there too.

Sam Vander Wielen: Thank you so much.

Naomi Powell: Thank you.

Sam Vander Wielen: Thanks so much for listening to the On Your Terms Podcast. Make sure to follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen to podcast. You can also check out all of our podcast episodes, show notes, links, and more at samvanderwilen.com/podcast. You can learn more about legally protecting your business and take my free legal workshop, Five Steps to Legally Protect and Grow Your Online Business, at samvanderwilen.com. And to stay connected and follow along, follow me on Instagram, @samvanderwielen, and send me a DM to say hi.

Just remember that although I am a attorney, I am not your attorney and I am not offering you legal advice in today’s episode. This episode and all of my episodes are informational and educational only. It is not a substitute for seeking out your own advice from your own lawyer. And please keep in mind that I can’t offer you legal advice. I don’t ever offer any legal services. But I think I offer some pretty good information.


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